How to approach a business deal

spcglider

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Okay, this was started in another thread, but I think I want to take it to another so its a separate thing.

I got a PM from someone asking about how you go about making a proper deal for your services. Now, I do this every day for the prop and effects company I run here in minneapolis. I deal with producers on a daily basis and their job description is to get whatever they need for their project (motion or still shoot) for as cheap as they possibly can. That's just fact. The less they spend, the more they make. And they don't care about what your bottom line is as long as they feel like they are making money.

The same process is perfectly appropriate for a puppet job.

The following is a generic guide. Not all producers are cutthroat and evil and trying to take you for every penny. At least not maliciously. But it is the very core of their job. And a job is just business. Remember that.

You get a call from a production. Usually a producer or an art buyer will contact you. They'll give you a thumbnail verbal sketch of what they need, find out if you do that sort of thing (you do), and then might send you a set of storyboards or layouts for the spot.

If they don't have storyboards or designs already, you must immediately begin grilling for information. You must put your brain into the investigative mode and ask every possible question you can think of so you have some grasp of what they will be expecting you to do.

This is an important process. Because sometimes even they haven't thought about it in this kind of detail and you may force them to make some realizations. Sometimes even our client doesn't really know what they are asking for. This helps them envision their own project more clearly and potentially helps you with the money aspect just around the corner.

So the conversation goes something like this:

Client: We want you to make us some puppets.

YOU: I can do that. What's your puppet budget?

NOTE: Never ask what the entire budget is for the spot. Its none of your business. But asking what the budget is for puppets is completely your right. They can tell you the truth or not, but you'll immediately be given one of two answers to respond to.

a)
Client: Well, we were thinking about $XXX

or

b)
Client: I'm not sure. Can you give me an estimate based on what we've talked about?

NOTE: If they give you an actual number, it will be less than they actually have in the budget. That's just their method of covering for disaster. If they tell you they don't know, it means they are relying on you to undervalue yourself. But don't be fooled. They DO know EXACTLY how much they WANT to spend on puppets. It just may not be realistic.

So you reply:

a)
YOU: Hmmm. That's pretty tight. We're going to have to lock down all the details before I can commit. I want to be sure you're getting exactly what you need so we're not burning that budget making stuff that isn't necessary. (And if it' a particularly low number you can say) Do you have any wiggle room on that number?

OR you reply:

b)
YOU: Asolutely. I can get you solid estimate numbers tomorrow morning based on what we've discussed. (At this point you reiterate the details and get a confirmation from them).

NOTE: When you start telling them that they won't have absolute freedom to do anything they want (or anything the director wants) for the money, they will either get very serious and work with you, or they'll start thinking about who they can talk to next to get everything they want for the money. Either way, even if they don't go with you, they'll know you are competent and aren't somebody they can fleece. (No pun intended.)

If they ask for a "ballpark" estimate, simply tell them that every project is unique and you need to run it through your bid process to really give a competent answer. NEVER, EVER SHOOT FROM THE HIP. Don't give anybody a number off the top of your head. Believe me, if they try to get immediate numbers out of you, they are betting that you'll undervalue yourself. That's one of their prime tools for trimming their budget. DON'T DO IT. Be firm and patient and steady in your process. Remember, THEY want something from YOU. Any exceptions you make to your process is a way they can take advantage of you. Decide carefully what you give up in hammering out a deal.

And again, you can be completely professional AND friendly AND excited about doing a job at the same time.

Things you should charge for or include in your bid or estimate:

1) Design time. If you're doing character drawings or designing the look of the puppet, you should get paid to do it. Especially if you are supplying drawings or sketches for approval. Don't forget to include money for changes or modificaions to the original designs in a second or thrird round of refinements. When you've gotten through the design phase, have the responsible party SIGN OFF ON THE DESIGN. That's critical.

2) Patterning. If you are drafting a pattern for a custom puppet, that's a LOT of work. You should get paid to do it.

3) Materials. Not only do you need to charge for the actual material you buy/use to make the puppets, but you need to budget for GETTING materials. Do you need to go to a fabric store? That's time you need to get paid for. Whether or not you upcharge your materials, you shouldn't give away travel time or accquisition time.

4) Prepping. Gotta dye fabrics to custom colors? Charge for it. That's work time.

5) Costuming. Making custom costumes for the puppet characters? Gotta remember to charge for that too. And all the parts of making the actual puppet apply here as well... Prepping, Materials, Patterning, etc.

6) Specialites. Does the puppet require mechanical movements? Eye blinks? Etc? That's another whole category that requires Prepping, Materials, Patterning, R&D, etc. Its gotta be in the bid or you're losing money.

7) Packaging/Shipping/Delivery. Are you shipping your puppet somewhere for the production? Are you delivering it yourself? Don't forget that these things cost money too. The client needs to pay for them.

8) Performance. That's a separate line item in the bid. If they expect you to perform the puppet, you should be getting paid for that too.

And those are the basics.

NOTE: Be very complete in your notes. When you take down the details in your converstaion with the producer or the art director or the production staff member chaged with getting this task done, you need to note EVERYTHING. If at all possible, you should have THEM send you a detailed laundry list of what the puppet is, does, looks like, and performs like. That way you are prepared for the inevitable:

MID-PRODUCTION CHANGES.

If the production suddenly asks you for changes, they need to pay for them. Absolutely and without question. You have your notes. They should be complete enough for you to say, "that's not what you asked for when we started".

And trust me, they'll try to flog it off on somebody along the line and get you to make changes for free. But you should stand your ground. If you have faithfully executed the design and followed the instructions and can show that somebody responsible has signed off on the design, you can get money for the changes. Its just a matter of covering your butt in the early stages. Remember when I told you they wouldn't offer all the money they had in their budget? This is why. They hold money in reserve so they can use it to smooth over bone-head stuff like this later on. if they tell you they don't have any money for the changes, tell them they don't have any right to ask for changes. Once again, be firm. Its business, remember.

Oh, and one last note: Don't ever fall for the "We'll make it up to you on the next one" line. I've been making props and special effects for 20 years and I have yet to collect on that promise from every producer I've ever worked with. Its a lie. The fact is, somebody up the line is making money off the work you do. You DESERVE to be paid fairly for it.

Know how these things work and you can actually get your fair payment.

And knowing is half the battle! GO JOE!

-Gordon
 

SesameKermie

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Wow. I never really thought about it like that. I haven't agreed to build puppets for anyone, but I've done some puppet performances with puppets I've built. Granted, I can't charge everyone for the cost to make my puppets, but now I realize why I shouldn't just say $25/per performance.
 

Onath

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Awesome. That was some priceless info.

onath
 

spcglider

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Thanks folks. It just occurred to me when I was reading the other thread about pricing your puppets... its a whole lot different than just assigning a price. At least it is for the puppet builder/performer. You don't ever need to reveal what your process or formula is for reaching your final price to a client. But I tend to use the info above to pare it down to a very simple calculation:

How much you need to get paid per hour for your work

plus

Materals cost (upcharge or not)

plus

15%

The 15% is to cover YOUR mistakes. It may not cover catastrophe, but it mitigates the loss. It also gives you a little room to move in case your client doesn't really have the money. It lets you negaotiate if absolutely necessary.

And yes... I do this every day at work. Its a good system.

-Gordon
 

Whispers

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Excellent information thanks a ton Gordon!
 

spcglider

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Thanks folks... just doing my part to raise the level. :wink:

-G
 
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