N00bie Questions! (and hello)

Snark Blarmsten

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Hi there,

I'm new to the forum, I'm really glad I found it - great resource. Now to biz. I recently decided to try my hand at making some puppets again, I had tried a few years ago and got discouraged - I think partly because I didn't find the right resources. There seems to be a lot more out there now. I bought Puppet Mania, the Foam Book and the Foam Video.

I'm mainly interested in muppet-type puppets, so Puppet Mania was kind of disappointing. The Foam book is good - but the video is 50% better (nothing like watching someone do something, I highly recommend it.) I also am really digging this blog:

(well, I can't post a url, but it is Sean Johnson's puppets101 blog.)

So that is where my info is coming from. I went out shopping yesterday and finally found 1/2" foam at Joann Fabrics (it's green, not sure why and not sure how good it is - certainly not Scott Foam quality) and bought some 1" squares at Wal-Mart - they are packaged as chair cushions. They say "100% urethane foam" - not sure if that is the same as polyurethane foam? (Assume it is). Picked up some great fur from Hobby Lobby and other such stuff I need. I chose Dap Weldwood glue as my adhesive - I could not find 3M 74 at Home Depot or anywhere else.

So - here are some questions. I watched the video, and I'm going for a 3-piece head method puppet.

1) Does the green color of the 1/2" foam mean anything or no? Granted it's probably average quality. It did seem to take the contact cement.

2) Ok, brushing on the Weldwood with thier built in "applicator" was not real effective. But spraying adhesive in the house doesn't work really well either. (too cold here to do this in the garage - too dangerous in the basement). Is there a better way to get this on?

3) In regard to adhesive - Sean Johnson (puppet101) uses and recommends barge cement, which I could not find (and he uses foam to dab it on, maybe that would work with weldwood?) He strongly suggested that hot glue does not work on foam puppets. Then in the Foam video, he uses hot glue all over the place - so I'm a bit confused. Granted they did use 3M 74 on the foam head to put it together. Is weldwood considered a good alternative? They all seem equally dangerous so, that's a moot point (I did read through the glue thread here).

On that note - if you've seen the Foam video - the way he handled his 3M 74 contact cement blew me away. No gloves, no respirator at all. Then my jaw dropped when he took out a jar of contact cement to glue something. So the jar is sitting there, and he's showing you how to tie the hand to the arm - and he *lights a match* to melt the nylong string with the jar sitting 6 inches away! I couldn't believe it - the stuff is highly flammable! And he never said one word about ever :eek:

4) I have my 3 pieces for the head glued (but not assembled). They are flatter than his were - particularly the jaw. I did use darts, etc like he did. Does this not matter - will the head "take shape" once I glue the front/back together and put the jaw on? If this doesn't make sense I can try and post some pics.

5) In regard to covering the puppet. Don't like the exposed foam look at all, and the way Sean Johnson covers his puppets is great. I could not find any Antron Fleece locally, so I got the fur. I assume the stitching techniques he uses and the way he pins it on will work with fur?

6) Getting foam - the Foam Video guy says he goes to his carpet shop and gets scraps, but seems the shops around here no longer carry nor use polyfoam at all - they use the wierd multicolor stuff. I was not able to find any white polyfoam locally. Should I just get the stuff online?

I guess that is long enough for now! Sorry for the length - I hope to have something to show for my efforts soon. Can anyone suggest a good place to order Antron Fleece online?

Thanks again,

Tom
 

SesameKermie

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Snark Blarmsten said:
Hi there,
4) I have my 3 pieces for the head glued (but not assembled). They are flatter than his were - particularly the jaw. I did use darts, etc like he did. Does this not matter - will the head "take shape" once I glue the front/back together and put the jaw on? If this doesn't make sense I can try and post some pics.

5) In regard to covering the puppet. Don't like the exposed foam look at all, and the way Sean Johnson covers his puppets is great. I could not find any Antron Fleece locally, so I got the fur. I assume the stitching techniques he uses and the way he pins it on will work with fur?

6) Getting foam - the Foam Video guy says he goes to his carpet shop and gets scraps, but seems the shops around here no longer carry nor use polyfoam at all - they use the wierd multicolor stuff. I was not able to find any white polyfoam locally. Should I just get the stuff online?

I guess that is long enough for now! Sorry for the length - I hope to have something to show for my efforts soon. Can anyone suggest a good place to order Antron Fleece online?

Thanks again,

Tom
I can't really answer the first few questions but here goes with the ones I can:
  • If you are covering the foam with fur or fleece, you can add pieces of foam to 'adjust' the shape of your puppet's head until it looks the way you want. The fabric will make it look like one big flowing shape rather than smaller individual ones.
  • The technique should work no matter what kind of fabric you are using. If you're using long "craft" fur (like Oscar or Cookie Monster) make sure that the nap of the fur is going in the correct direction.
  • Rather than a carpet store, try a place like Hancock Fabrics. I've seen polyurethane foam in sheets there in various thicknesses.
  • Finally, for Antron Fleece (and probably some other fabrics too) try Kathy at GA Stage. I think her information is in the "Puppeteer Resources" Thread.

Hope this helps. I'd love to see your work in progress and/or the finished puppet!

Jason
 

Buck-Beaver

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I don't have time to go through all of your questions, but the glue ones jumped out at me so I'll tackle them:

I have the utmost respect for Drew Allison and Grey Seal the way they fail to address safety issues and contact cement in that video is stupid and totally irresponsible. There's just no other way to describe it. As most people here already know, contact cement contains extremely harmful carcinogens (cancer-causing chemicals) and should only be used if you're taking the proper safety precautions.

Sean is (mostly) right about hot glue and foam. Contact cement works much, much better than hot glue and allows you to have smoother, more even seams. It also doesn't clump up the way hot glue does and you don't burn yourself either. Can you use hot glue? Well, technically, yes. But it's not really very good in my opinion.

BTW, if you're looking for a good glue for foam that's non-toxic like hot glue but works like contact cement I highly recommend 3M's "Green" Contact Cement, which is non-toxic. The glue takes longer than regularly contact cement to get tacky and set, but there's no risk to your health and it's environmentally-friendly too.
 

Snark Blarmsten

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Thanks guys. Yeah, Drew obviously is a pro and really knows his stuff, he makes puppet making look easy, but I can't imagine the rationale behind not pointing out the safety issues...and the match! Ugh, it still blows me away.

I can see maybe using hot glue in hard to get places. My concern would be not only clumping but it losing its seal over time.

I'm striking out finding the 3M Green contact cement, does anyone have any further info on it? 3Ms site is a total mess, and not responding so no luck there. That sounds appealing, but is it as good a bond as the 74/77?

I am concerned that if I actually make a decent puppet, I do want it to last a decent amount of time without deteriorating.

Another question - on the hand rod method Drew uses the doll joint method which seems to make a certain amount of sense, with the bent wire handle.

Sean uses a squared wood block with a bent end into the hand, sewed in. Is one way better or does it depend on application? I could actually see the squared wood block being more maniputable (word? LOL). Once you get backward on the handle, it would be hard to deal with but maybe that doesn't happen.

If anyone else has some comments on my questions, please let me know. I'm particularly wondering about the green foam I got. It glued up fine so far, but I wonder if it is just a cheap type of foam. I bought like 3 yards of it and it was about $13.

I'll definitely post some pics - maybe tonight - when I get the base of the head glued up.

Tom
 
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