How do you explain Scooter's introduction?

[muppetray]

In the 1st season of The Muppet Show Scooter seem to be not part of the Muppet group. It is like he is inly there because his uncle owns the theatre and wants to become all of thems friend.
Am i wrong about this? Or is it that During the years between Muppet Babies and when they were older The Muppet Show and movies Scooter drifted awy from them?;) Yes I knopw Muppet Babies was filmed later on. Iwas just wandering what the expalination was. I'M justing recently getting back into the Muppets:o:)

[Super Scooter]

Well, Muppet Babies and The Muppet Show aren't part of the same canon. There really isn't any Muppet canon officially, but the two shows really don't fit together at all.

The Muppet babies were based on Miss Piggy's dream sequence in The Muppets Take Manhattan, so it could be argued that the entire cartoon series was just a part of Piggy's imagination... but, ya know, discussions of Muppet canon rarely get anywhere around here. :) :p :)

[Fluffets]

Intriguing topic. *can't think of anything to say*

[Gelfling Girl]

This is indeed a question for us to probosculate upon. :D

[RedPiggy]

Ah, but then MFC just had to go ruin it all by saying it did happen. :D

My thoughts: The Muppets hung out together at Nanny's, which was more like an informal day care (yes, they could spend the night, though). However, eventually everyone split up and only met again as adults. A lot can happen over the years.

[dwmckim]

Yeah - MFC was a big retcon but i give it a pass for being a one-time excursion for a project that was build around the premise of doing a show where all the different Muppet casts of the various tv shows came together...and this was a way of including the Muppet Babies without having the animated versions...besides the way the videos have edited the special to pieces due to the music rights issues, it's not like that scene currently "exists" these days as a manner of speaking.

I do tend to go with the Muppet Show version. I also think of MB as an alternate universe variation of the Muppets based on Piggy's dream...a "what-if" as you will. You'll notice that before or after MB there's never been any mention of Skeeter.

And when it comes to "Muppet canon", well Gonzo tends to be the keeper of most of the Muppet cannons and he's not always the most reliable source.

[Drtooth]

Here's some advice about Muppet "canon." No matter what you look at, everything's waaaaay too inconsistent to consider an official straight up "canon." Sort of like how Marge and Homer have multiple marriage stories (Homer eating the cake before the wedding and getting married in the emergency room, Homer and Marge having a normal wedding, and Homer and Marge marrying in a sleazy place on the interstate). Way I see it, there's the Muppet Babies canon (where they all knew each other, which was based off a dream Miss Piggy had in MTM), Muppet Show canon (where Scooter was hired because his uncle owned the theater) and The Muppet Movie canon (Where Scooter was part of the band).

Very confusing that it has so many stories... but there's nothing wrong with it. I think all the different stories are interesting in their own right.

[Blue Weirdo]

Kermit says the Muppet Movie is "Approximately how it happened" I like to think Scooter wasn't actually there when Kermit and Fozzie met the band but they were pressured by J.P Gross (or rather the threat of J.P.) into letting him have a part in the movie.

Something like this:

Scooter: "Hey Kermit, what do I do in the movie?"
Kermit: "Well nothing. You weren't there for any of this. You didn't join us till later on."
Scooter: "There's gotta be some scene I can appear in."
Kermit: "Scooter, I can't change history just to give you a part."
Scooter: "Gee, my uncle who owns this theater really wanted to see me in the film."
Kermit: "You're the band's road manager."

[Gelfling Girl]

Scooter: "Hey Kermit, what do I do in the movie?"
Kermit: "Well nothing. You weren't there for any of this. You didn't join us till later on."
Scooter: "There's gotta be some scene I can appear in."
Kermit: "Scooter, I can't change history just to give you a part."
Scooter: "Gee, my uncle who owns this theater really wanted to see me in the film."
Kermit: "You're the band's road manager."
LOL :) Scooter is definitely one of the awesomest Muppets of all time. ;)

[heralde]

Scooter: "Hey Kermit, what do I do in the movie?"
Kermit: "Well nothing. You weren't there for any of this. You didn't join us till later on."
Scooter: "There's gotta be some scene I can appear in."
Kermit: "Scooter, I can't change history just to give you a part."
Scooter: "Gee, my uncle who owns this theater really wanted to see me in the film."
Kermit: "You're the band's road manager."

Lol, that is cute! ;)

[RedPiggy]

Yeah, the thing is, the movies pretty much admit they made up the origin story. I tend, in my fics, to see them as different origins but because they supposedly happen so far apart from each other, you can just argue that some memories are bad (or willfully altered to suit the character's preference) or that some things did happen, it's just that no one really recalls it.

I think that makes sense. Still not awake yet :D

[Bill Bubble Guy]

I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum that as far as I'm concerned I don't see any proper substantial continuity in The Muppet Show series anyway.

The season one DVD set is supposed to be arranged in "official chronological order" though when they first aired on television they broadcast them in random order and even on the DVDs Scooter's "introduction" takes place after he's already appeared in at least two or three episodes. They did the same thing with Annie Sue Pig in season three, and she even technically appeared back in season two albeit as an unnamed background character.

So therefore I'd say there's no explanation for Scooter's introduction in TMS let alone for Muppet Babies. All Muppet Show related Henson productions are basically stand alone sort of shows to be purely enjoyed on their own merit.

That's my two cents to this discussion. :) ;)

[RedPiggy]

I think Annie Sue is different, though. I think it was just miscommunication. Kermit hired her but didn't tell Piggy. Piggy realized who she was later on. Kermit then introduced her to Piggy when she started doing more than filling the background. I feel he didn't realize Piggy knew Annie Sue from her past.

[LamangoNumber2]

Scooter just appeared, CLAIMED his uncle owned the theater, and got the job. Nothing more, nothing less. Least we know he didn't end up cage dancing.

[Fluffets]

Least we know he didn't end up cage dancing.

Thank god he didn't!:o

[Baby Gonzo]

I think of Scooter as being quite a bit younger than Kermit and most of the other "main" Muppets. I see him as a bright eyed kid - probably either still in high school or having just graduated recently. In that since, I think it's impossible for everyone to have grown up together. His introduction on the Muppet Show is probably the closest thing to being canon for his introduction, but I agree. There really isn't one Muppet canon.

[Blue Weirdo]

Scooter just appeared, CLAIMED his uncle owned the theater, and got the job. Nothing more, nothing less. Least we know he didn't end up cage dancing.

Scooter's uncle did actually appear once or twice and Kermit spoke with him on the phone occasionally so Scooter's claim is legitimate even if he did take unfair advantage of it.

Also in VMMCM Kermit says Scooter's uncle left them the theater (Doesn't officially say he died but I doubt he's hibernating :o )

[Fluffets]

Scooter's uncle did actually appear once or twice and Kermit spoke with him on the phone occasionally so Scooter's claim is legitimate even if he did take unfair advantage of it.

Also in VMMCM Kermit says Scooter's uncle left them the theater (Doesn't officially say he died but I doubt he's hibernating :o )

Well we have seen him I think in MTI being a carriage driver I think or something for Captain Smollet, though like everyone he wore a wig. So even if the character is, the real JP Grosse is presumabely still alive with a small acting career, but no recent activity that I'm aware of proves this.:confused:

[Convincing John]

I think of Scooter as being quite a bit younger than Kermit and most of the other "main" Muppets. I see him as a bright eyed kid - probably either still in high school or having just graduated recently. In that since, I think it's impossible for everyone to have grown up together. His introduction on the Muppet Show is probably the closest thing to being canon for his introduction, but I agree. There really isn't one Muppet canon.

Well, here's something else to consider. As of the Nancy Walker episode, Scooter's still in school. He even says so.

Check out this video (a little after the five minute mark) and Scooter talks about selling magazine subscriptions for school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZChE15PN0mY

As for the Muppet babies thing...uh, I dunno. It's kinda odd. yeah, we could say that it's all part of Piggy's imagination, but there's the evidence on film in MFC. (Deleted video scenes or no deleted video scenes, some of us have the original airing on tape);)

I think...just tossing an idea out there, I wish there could be a coffee table book called "The History of the Muppets". Collaborations could be from writers, Muppeteers, the Muppet Wiki, etc. to tell the once-and-for-all-truth about where the characters themselves grew up, whether the Muppet Babies play a part (or not) and how they met (or how some of them met as babies and then met up later).

Just how did Kermit find them all to hire at the theater anyway? We know about Scooter's connection with the theater. Oddly enough, there's a detailed biography (http://forum.muppetcentral.com/showpost.php?p=663995&postcount=45) about Bo in a Muppet book from the late 70's/early 80's (including a detailed description about how he got hired). But...very little else is known about how Kermit hired the others. I could easily see Rowlf giving Kermit a hand (in Muppet history, they've been working together since at least 1969).

There's a lot to think about here.

Convincing John

[Beauregard]

Ah, but then MFC just had to go ruin it all by saying it did happen. :D

My thoughts: The Muppets hung out together at Nanny's, which was more like an informal day care (yes, they could spend the night, though). However, eventually everyone split up and only met again as adults. A lot can happen over the years.
Hmm...MFC did say that, but then again, if we're assuming that Muppet Babies was Miss Piggy's personal enterprise (having thought it up, and gotten a company to make it in cartoon for for her) she probably would have been able to badger Kermit into letting her put a neat little advertising moment for that show into the MFC special they were filming...

[RedPiggy]

With body doubles? She just hired some kids who resembled them? Where did she get Baby Gonzo? Was it a costume?

[Beauregard]

*laughs* Maybe she got...God forbid...Puppets! *giggles* I don't really know...hmmm!

[RedPiggy]

I know. *laughs* Here you go with a decent theory, but then I go around and muck it up with questions that make it even worse, like "if Gonzo is one-of-a-kind, then where did the Baby Gonzo come from?"

I'm willing to go with the idea that some of them, anyway, did meet as babies in a daycare-like environment (after all, most of them HAD parents). The cartoon is then Piggy's imagining of it, embellished with her own fantasies (or a collaboration ... I really don't see Piggy imagining everything that went on there ... the others must have put in their two cents).

[Fluffets]

Well, here's something else to consider. As of the Nancy Walker episode, Scooter's still in school. He even says so.

Check out this video (a little after the five minute mark) and Scooter talks about selling magazine subscriptions for school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZChE15PN0mY

As for the Muppet babies thing...uh, I dunno. It's kinda odd. yeah, we could say that it's all part of Piggy's imagination, but there's the evidence on film in MFC. (Deleted video scenes or no deleted video scenes, some of us have the original airing on tape);)

I think...just tossing an idea out there, I wish there could be a coffee table book called "The History of the Muppets". Collaborations could be from writers, Muppeteers, the Muppet Wiki, etc. to tell the once-and-for-all-truth about where the characters themselves grew up, whether the Muppet Babies play a part (or not) and how they met (or how some of them met as babies and then met up later).

Just how did Kermit find them all to hire at the theater anyway? We know about Scooter's connection with the theater. Oddly enough, there's a detailed biography (http://forum.muppetcentral.com/showpost.php?p=663995&postcount=45) about Bo in a Muppet book from the late 70's/early 80's (including a detailed description about how he got hired). But...very little else is known about how Kermit hired the others. I could easily see Rowlf giving Kermit a hand (in Muppet history, they've been working together since at least 1969).

There's a lot to think about here.

Convincing John

Well the frogs too, and robin, because they knew each-other before too, in The Frog Prince. Same goes for Sweetums, Gonzo had already been in at least one previous muppet production along with Thog and the other Frackles, so that explains them, and in some bits you see some of the cast of Muppet Musicians Of Bremen. So some things can be explained but as for others, well, there are somethings that no one knows..... ;)

[dwmckim]

Well we have seen him I think in MTI being a carriage driver I think or something for Captain Smollet, though like everyone he wore a wig. So even if the character is, the real JP Grosse is presumabely still alive with a small acting career, but no recent activity that I'm aware of proves this.:confused:

...and he also appeared as himself (and referred to by name) on Muppets Tonight - but both productions came before VMX so whatever happened to him happened between 1998 and 2002.

I think J.P. was essentially a wanna-be performer at heart as was seen in the Jaye P. Morgan episode...he then gets a chance to be part of a cast medley in Bob Hope episode so that was probably a turning point for him - he got the performing bug and just as Scooter took advantage of his uncle owning the Muppet Theatre, J.P. in turn took advantage of Scooter's show-biz contacts with the Muppet troupe to eventually get some background work in Muppet Christmas Carol and Muppet Treasure Island...and then went on to become a generally benign member of the KMUP production crew (and occasional actor as in the Great Moments in Elvis history debut)

[Phillip Chapman]

Nice thinking out-of-the-box DW. For me it always seemed kind of strange seeing JP Grosse in MCC, MTI and MT given his history against the Muppets. However, your analysis of what "could have happened" behind-the-scenes is very good and quite fun as well.

[Fluffets]

I think your both right.:)

[Nekoshema]

Kermit says the Muppet Movie is "Approximately how it happened" I like to think Scooter wasn't actually there when Kermit and Fozzie met the band but they were pressured by J.P Gross (or rather the threat of J.P.) into letting him have a part in the movie.

Something like this:

Scooter: "Hey Kermit, what do I do in the movie?"
Kermit: "Well nothing. You weren't there for any of this. You didn't join us till later on."
Scooter: "There's gotta be some scene I can appear in."
Kermit: "Scooter, I can't change history just to give you a part."
Scooter: "Gee, my uncle who owns this theater really wanted to see me in the film."
Kermit: "You're the band's road manager."

lol, that's exactly how it happened ;)
my sister hates Scooter in season one [well, i think she doesn't like him at all cuz he's my favouritest muppet ever] she call's him a weasel cuz how he acts in the first season [i reply, no! he's a gofer]

how old is Scooter suppose to be anyway, they refer to him as 'kid' sometimes. so he's what, 18? since he's suppose to be kinda like Richard Hunt

[Gelfling Girl]

my sister hates Scooter in season one she call's him a weasel cuz how he acts in the first season
Ironically, I became a fan of Scooter after watching season one. I mean, I guess I liked him a bit, mainly because I was a fan of Beaker and Janice, then I found out it was the same person performing both of them then I found out Scooter was also the same person. (w00t! Richard Hunt is totally awesome!) But I didn't truly think of him as too awesome until I got the season 1 box set and started watching those episodes of TMS. ("My uncle owns the theater.")

[heralde]

how old is Scooter suppose to be anyway, they refer to him as 'kid' sometimes. so he's what, 18? since he's suppose to be kinda like Richard Hunt

Well there was that time when he was trying to sell magazine. That is traditionally associated with High School age kids.

[Vic Romano]

Ah, the old Muppet canon issues. It's been awhile since I've seen a discussion about this.

I don't remember who, but a very wise member on this forum once chalked it all up to the Muppets play characters based on themselves in the movies which are completely mythological. The only true canon is The Muppet Show, everything else is the Muppets simply performing roles as actors in the movies. That's what I like to go with.

[Nekoshema]

Ironically, I became a fan of Scooter after watching season one. I mean, I guess I liked him a bit, mainly because I was a fan of Beaker and Janice, then I found out it was the same person performing both of them then I found out Scooter was also the same person. (w00t! Richard Hunt is totally awesome!) But I didn't truly think of him as too awesome until I got the season 1 box set and started watching those episodes of TMS. ("My uncle owns the theater.")

lol, well, i loved Scooter as long as i've lived, i think it was one of my first words, my parents tell me no matter where i was in the house, if they turned on the muppets and Scooter was on, i came running in [lol, i always wanted to hug Scooter, still do, i love him so much] it wasn't till i was older, [like 5 years ago] i started finding out about Richard and became a huge fan [though i didn't know he died till january of this year... kinda odd] when i found i i cried [first time i've cried over someone's death]

hee, Scooter so awesome ;) and i WILL, one day, hug him! don't care if i need to break into muppet studio's, i'll get that hug ;) [and when i die, i'll hug Richard in the afterlife... hopefully there's one]

[Gelfling Girl]

[and when i die, i'll hug Richard in the afterlife... hopefully there's one]
True dedication of a Muppet fan. I would totally hug Richard Hunt if I ever got the chance. :flirt: Of course, in a dream, that happened and I woke up. :eek: (Perhaps the equivalent of fainting?;))

[Scooterthegofer]

I have had the wonderful chance to have a handmade replica of Scooter, ripe for the hugging.

[Gelfling Girl]

I have had the wonderful chance to have a handmade replica of Scooter, ripe for the hugging.
LOL. ;)

[Nekoshema]

True dedication of a Muppet fan. I would totally hug Richard Hunt if I ever got the chance. :flirt: Of course, in a dream, that happened and I woke up.

lol, i had a dream where he hugged me. :flirt: i was so happy.

i'm planing on making a scooter doll, [i keep running into brick walls cuz i want it to be perfect] once i have the scooter doll, then i'll be... well, committed by my family... but happy!

[FletchySRF3088]

Just wanna join in on the Scooter love here. He's my favourite character! And I'm such a big fan of Richard Hunt too! I even created a facebook group called We love Scooter the "gofer"! cause frankly I think he deserves a group ;) lol. I really hope that he'll get an bigger role in the upcoming film, I am really enjoying what David Rudman is doing with Scooter so far.

[Gelfling Girl]

I even created a facebook group called We love Scooter the "gofer"!
Cool. I think I might join. ;):flirt:

[FletchySRF3088]

Cool. I think I might join. ;):flirt:

Yay! Thanks. Gotta keep that Scooter love growing ;)

[Nekoshema]

I even created a facebook group called We love Scooter the "gofer"!

i might join too, sounds cool ;)

[FletchySRF3088]

Thank you, Nekoshema ;) I'm trying to really keep the group strong with as many screencaps and pics as I can get.

[Nekoshema]

Thank you, Nekoshema ;) I'm trying to really keep the group strong with as many screencaps and pics as I can get.

cool, and i did join, i posted six-string orchistra and jabberwocky, hope that was cool ;)

[FletchySRF3088]

cool, and i did join, i posted six-string orchistra and jabberwocky, hope that was cool ;)

Oh, that was you? Thank you! :) Great additions ;) I really appreciate it