Seriously Disney, What The Heck?

[beaker]

You've all heard about the Disneyland and Disneyworld park layoffs, where more than a thousand salaried employees were terminated.
But, word has it that a lot of these people were long time loyal employees with intimate knowledge and loyalty that cant be replaced.

And when I say long time, I mean some of these people have been working there since the 1950's!
http://minniemousegirl.livejournal.com/38181.html

Over the last several weeks, more than 1,000 salaried theme park employees have been terminated at Disneyland and Walt Disney World. To hear some tell it, those removed were primarily “dead wood”—middle managers with redundant responsibilities who spent most of their time hiding in their offices Poppycock. Many of those released had decades of loyal service to the park. They were providing important functions and, more importanly, possessed fundamental operating knowledge of the park that their successors must now do without. These weren’t all drooling, do-nothing hold-overs from the Pressler regime. In fact, several of those let go had been working at the park since 1956 (coincidentally, the year former Disneyland president Paul Pressler was born and 38 years before his first step inside Disneyland).

In tribute, here are just a few of the hard-working cast members who lost their jobs. My apologies to the hundreds whom I haven’t listed.

* Harold “Mickey” Aronson – the 87-year-old helped launch the first fireworks at Disneyland in 1956 and had been launching them ever since. The park’s old pyrotechnics computer was named “Mickey’s Match,u201D in his honor. Although he technically worked for an outside company for the first 20 years, he was officially hired by Disney in 1976.
* Geri Bumpass – who served as one of the park’s first tour guides in the mid-1950s and, after some time away, has been working in special projects for about the last 20 years. Geri worked at the park so long and knew so many cast members that friends joked she “never missed a retirement party.”
* Rebecca Caldwell – a 20-year veteran of the advertising, marketing, and publicity departments.
* Tom Gardiner – a financial planner for the resort since the 1970s.
* Connie Gohata – a production manager for more than 30 years.
* Ken Inoue – 30-year stalwart of the landscaping department.
* Cathy Jensen – merchandise project manager for the last 15 years, having joined the department 29 years ago.
* Timm Lundeen – the popular “Disney Pinbassador,u201D he was West Coast pin trading project manager who worked his way up from humble beginnings in Foods in 1986.
* Joyce Trent Morgan – manager of creative communications & alliance marketing, the 25-year veteran of marketing & advertising department even helped produce DCA’s opening day TV special.
* Homer Reyes – who oversaw the paint shop for the last 20+ years.
* Meredith Webster – another 30+ year old-timer from the Administration Building.


As one old-timer points out: “They say this is all about cutting fat, but look at (how they’re staffing) the hourly cast members.” He notices that despite heavy crowds, Disneyland is scheduling a minimal number of front-line operators, leaving attractions and other facilities under-staffed or completely unstaffed. The cuts in capacity result in guests waiting longer and receiving fewer choices.

Others leaving over the last few weeks include catering & convention manager Joyce Bramlett, Marilyn Campbell, special events producer Jon Cloward, Jeremy Collins, Kolissa Cope, Pamela Ewing, marketing & advertising filming manager Grace Ishiki, Blake Lennon, Joyce Manning, Michael McManigal, product developer Sarah Quinn, Emily Reed, Bill Rowland, Karen Seals, and special events manager Eric Wiley.

Man, I am glad and proud I was able to sneak into California Adventure and Disneyland summer of 2007. Charging close to a hundred bucks to go into either park, with no discounts anywhere is just insane. Disney owns many major media companies, makes billions through the hard work of Pixar, etc yet they claim theyre not making enough at their parks to justify keeping workers on board?

I know were spose' to be all nice toward the house of mouse since they are appearing to be moving forward for the first time in years with the Muppets property, but still.

Of course, if youll recall even Jim Henson Company when they owned the Muppets laid off a bunch of puppet builders in the early 2000's and Sesame Workshop laid off a bunch of people recently.

[Drtooth]

Hey, this whole recession thing is a head scratcher. You mean to tell me not a single company had thought of temporarily LOWERING their prices instead of constantly raising them to make up for losing money because no one could afford it to being with. Hey, GENIUSES... if they didn't have money to buy the stuff when they didn't have to use food stamps, what makes you think they'd spend 10-50% more now? Toys all cost upwards of 10 bucks each, when a couple years ago, you could get the same thing for 5-7. Even Little Debby snack cakes that used to go for 25 cents a couple years ago went through 3 price increases in the last year and a half. Say hello to low quality 75 cent snack cakes. Amazing.

I just can't believe not a single big business was smart enough to take the generous wealthy favoring tax cuts (that caused us to borrow so much money from China, which devalued the dollar, which caused the whole mess to begin with) and invest them, or put them away for a rainy day. Their incompetence and greed won out, and they had "Record profits" by taking the tax money they were supposed to invest in new jobs, and kept them as "profit." No wonder everyone was bamboozled into thinking the economy was so great, when the middle class kept bottoming out.

Disney makes crap loads of money. I understand that they are losing lots of tourists (at least from the US... for a while, we were the discount tourist destination for the rest of the world, thanks to our worthless Funny Bucks) since no one can even afford to go to the movies anymore. But they made so much money everywhere else. They are an entertainment super power, and while Warners and other companies were floundering because of their general incompetence (I know I throw that word around a lot, but it's apt), Disney was making a fortune off of Pixar, Pirates of the Carribean (until recently) and that Disney Channel crap I'm always complaining about. Surely there's enough money there to keep people employed, so they can afford the stuff they don't need. Remember, we are a capitalist system. Only way a capitalist system works is if everyone can afford to buy junk they don't need. Once that's taken away, jobs fall like dominoes.

[Vic Romano]

So sad. How disconcerting too! I mean, Disney parks are a throw back to the good ol' days. Simpler times, better morals and values; and they toss out the very soul of what helps create that? I love Disney, I really do, but this is shameful. No golden parachutes either, I bet. Just "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

[heralde]

Well I do want to point out, Disney was known for unceremoniously kicking people out even in the 1950s. That's the way powerful companies tend to work.

[frogboy4]

I'm sure there were many valued longtime employees that they did keep. More than they let-go. Who knows how and why all these particular decisions are made? The Jim Henson Company has made staff cuts under Jim and after and many of the employees were undoubtedly valued. It bites. It's also how it works.

In order for companies to steer away from bankruptcy they must think in new ways and tighten their belts. This means reconfiguring company structure and that leads to job cuts. Longtime employees likely get nice severance packages, but it's still a sour experience all around.

The challenge is reconciling quality with the bottom line while valuing employees. That's a difficult mixture. Sure, Disney has done some graceless things. I just hope that something at the company improves from these cuts. Something we can enjoy. If it's only about shareholders than this is a rotten deed. I'm still reserving judgment.

[beaker]

I'm sure there were many valued longtime employees that they did keep. More than they let-go. Who knows how and why all these particular decisions are made? The Jim Henson Company has made staff cuts under Jim and after and many of the employees were undoubtedly valued. It bites. It's also how it works.

In order for companies to steer away from bankruptcy they must think in new ways and tighten their belts. This means reconfiguring company structure and that leads to job cuts. Longtime employees likely get nice severance packages, but it's still a sour experience all around.

The challenge is reconciling quality with the bottom line while valuing employees. That's a difficult mixture. Sure, Disney has done some graceless things. I just hope that something at the company improves from these cuts. Something we can enjoy. If it's only about shareholders than this is a rotten deed. I'm still reserving judgment.

As Dr Tooth said, here's a genuis crazy...dare I say edgy avant garde concept: LOWER the gate prices!

Disney claims the layoff is because of lower park attentance. Well, maybe thats because families cant afford hundreds and hundreds of dollars so a few of their family members can go in a single day.

There's so many disenfranchised, poverty stricken, and financially struggling people in that whole Anaheim/LA so cal area. Again, as Dr Tooth said, Disney corp never thought of
bringing ticket prices way down?

They announce that Disneyland is $50 to get in, and I guarantee you park attentance skyrockets. Of course, I wouldn't expect them to actually think of the obvious. This, is the company that got rid of the VERY thing that made them Disney: 2d animation.

[heralde]

"People who have a lot of money seldom say no to more." ;)

And I do pray for these people and their families; it's a horrible time for this to happen. The whole recession thing is a continual disgrace on the nation.

I'm more concerned about these people than the condition of the company. Disney unceremoniously removed child actors for the crime of growing up or coming out of the closet in the past. This kind of thing is not a recent phenomenon.

[frogboy4]

As Dr Tooth said, here's a genius crazy...dare I say edgy avant-garde concept: LOWER the gate prices!

Disney claims the layoff is because of lower park attendance. Well, maybe that's because families cant afford hundreds and hundreds of dollars so a few of their family members can go in a single day.

There's so many disenfranchised, poverty stricken, and financially struggling people in that whole Anaheim/LA so cal area. Again, as Dr Tooth said, Disney corp never thought of
bringing ticket prices way down?

They announce that Disneyland is $50 to get in, and I guarantee you park attentance skyrockets. Of course, I wouldn't expect them to actually think of the obvious. This, is the company that got rid of the VERY thing that made them Disney: 2d animation.

It must cost an amazing amount of money to run the parks. A figure that is incomprehensible to us. There's also the price of maintenance, insurance and heightened security since 911. That's a lot. I'm sure the bean counters know enough of the park's history to predict how lower entry fees will impact their profits. The parks make up for other shortfalls in Disney sales so it is crucial they remain as profitable as possible and I'm sure they have the best minds working on that. This is just such an odd time all around. I'm still amazed they can secure the location!

By ungracefully sending some of the older Disney park veterans out on an ice flow the company is also streamlining their operations while making way for newer, lesser paid employees to begin their careers (that may be cut short down the line as well) and thus the Circle of Life begins again. It's a raw deal. At least Eisner's gone. Since reading that portion of Street Gang I can't ever like that man.

Would lower prices build up or run down the park? I can see cases for both.

[heralde]

By ungracefully sending some of the older Disney park veterans out on an ice flow the company is also streamlining their operations while making way for newer, lesser paid employees to begin their careers (that may be cut short down the line as well) and thus the Circle of Life begins again.

Thing is some companies recently are instead turning towards unpaid internships for what were previously jobs, even for older people.

[frogboy4]

Thing is some companies recently are instead turning towards unpaid internships for what were previously jobs, even for older people.

"Too true." - :D

I feel the crunch. I really do. Being a creative field I know first hand that many people don't take such hard work seriously unless it's about shuffling legal documents or brain surgery. But to be honest, too many people in creative fields like graphic design are mediocre clip art monkeys. Makes it hard on the rest of us.

I just hope that these Disney interns aren't being exploited and have real opportunity in their future. Heck, listing them on a resume shows an employer that they've more than paid their dues.

[heralde]

I just hope that these Disney interns aren't being exploited and have real opportunity in their future. Heck, listing them on a resume shows an employer that they've more than paid their dues.

Hehe, very true! ;)

[Vic Romano]

At least Eisner's gone. Since reading that portion of Street Gang I can't ever like that man.

I know, right? What a scumbag! That's why I loved that book though, it did not shy from giving overly honest opinions about people. Even Jane Henson wasn't safe!

[Ilikemuppets]

That sucks for the people that have been let go.

As far as people who can't afford to pay the higher price, well, there are more important things in the world and in peoples lives than visiting a theme park...

[Drtooth]

As Dr Tooth said, here's a genuis crazy...dare I say edgy avant garde concept: LOWER the gate prices!

Hey, I ain't just saying Disney, lower gate prices... I'm saying round the board sweeping price declines in everything... mid sized action figures for 5-7 bucks (No way should a shrimpy G.I. Joe/Star Wars/Wolverine 3" AF go for 8 bucks! That's what we were paying 5 years ago for deluxe Muppet AF's), snack treats under a dollar... come on. They make this crap for literally pennies at Korean and Chinese sweat shops.... only things I ever see selling are things at deep discount clearances or sales. They're going to lose money anyway...

I hate the term "belt tightening" since the people that request it are fatter than cows (monitarily speaking). let's say they could take a modest pay cut and keep several jobs.... no way. They'd kill off 500000000 employees before they lose a penny off their own salaries. That's what got these companies in trouble, their own greed. People that buy beach houses in Maui they never go to just so they have the luxury of saying "I have a luxury beach house in Maui I never go to." The rich should take the heat now, since they've been doing underhanded, sneaky, unAmerican things to stay wealthy since the Regan administraition (I hear talk of a corporation building a time machine to make sure Teddy Roosevelt was never elected, and expose novels about the cruelty of factory owners to their workers never get written... but you didn't hear that from me :D ).

These same people took American jobs, gift wrapped them, gave them to China, Mexico, and India (with the exception of Mexico, this made them a stronger economic power than us) just because they could go behind those pesky commie ideas like unions, minimum wage, health benefits... and general safety concerns (them pinkos! Trying to give workers a fare share). And somehow, even with the shipping and duty and fueling it makes everything almost a buck cheaper per unit to produce. Which naturally means they keep everything at the same price. Now we're all suffering from it. but hey, we get to buy lightbulbs at Walmart for 6 cents less than if they were made in the US.

[beaker]

Would lower prices build up or run down the park? I can see cases for both.

I understand why Broadway musicals are $100 a pop; given the hoity toity exclusivity and limited audience each one has. But *especially* in this day and age, when the airline industry to everyone else is dropping prices...how can Disney keep prices to almost $100(for even California Adventure!)

For every family that decides to go to Disneyland(and were not just talking the insane gate fee, but the parking/hotel/gas/money they'll flood at the parks on food and merch, possible plane tickets, etc...so were talking thousands), theres probably 10 more that cant go(even ones who live not far away at all) because the prices are too high.

So I just cannot see how an aggressive campaign to get out the word about lower gate fees($65? I mean isnt that reasonable?
Last I actually paid to get in back in 1990 it was $35)

Geez, at least lower Calif Adventure entrance, Disney is always internally complaining about super low attendance at Calif Adv...its like, who wants to pay $89 for not very much?

[beaker]

Hey, I ain't just saying Disney, lower gate prices... I'm saying round the board sweeping price declines in everything... mid sized action figures for 5-7 bucks (No way should a shrimpy G.I. Joe/Star Wars/Wolverine 3" AF go for 8 bucks! That's what we were paying 5 years ago for deluxe Muppet AF's), snack treats under a dollar... come on. They make this crap for literally pennies at Korean and Chinese sweat shops.... only things I ever see selling are things at deep discount clearances or sales. They're going to lose money anyway...

Oh I know right? The whole new Marvel line SUCKS. I like small figures, but these are just cheap, scrawny and way too much.
Does Marvel(Toy Biz) even remember the 1992-1996 line? Actually the entire 80's to 90's DC and Marvel line was fantastic. To this day I enjoy picking up good condition DC/Marvel figures from the Super Powers/Secret Wars/90's line.
And yeah, I mean you go into Toys R Us or Target, and $10 for authentic 1989 TMNT figures? When ya can go to any flea market, ebay auction, used toy store, etc and get em for a buck? Noones buying those ones, and Playmates got so lazy after Fast Forward that all the new figures are stuck on the attrocious TMNT movie backing(I LOVED the Imagi 2007 TMNT film, but compared to the 2003-2006 figure line art it doesnt fly)
I really liked the colorful, well done figures Playmates was doing 2003-2006, *sigh*
But yeah, now days...its literally Transformers Animated(hate it),
GI Joe(never cared for it, cept Sigma 6), Star Wars(talk about over saturation ubiquity), Power Rangers(.....), Pro Wrestling(still?), DC/Marvel(small figures for too much), Naruto/DragonBall and other Jump properties(kind of cool figures), and then the Pokemon/Yu Gi Oh/Ben 10/Monster in my pocket ball stuff. I see not much outside of this paradigm, as Walmart and Target have dramatically cut back on toys, and overall the American toy market has really narrowed. Even the NECA/Meco collector's market. (Hence why I love seeing retro toy shops or sites and seeing a virtual museum of all the 70's, 80's and early 90's action figure lines and realizing how many properties there were out there)

I also cant stand artificial scarcity. Recently there was a conspiracy by personal online sellers(ebay types) to rush to every Toys R Us(excl retailer of Monsters vs Aliens), and grab up every single Monsters Vs Aliens toy and plush. I saw the movie and absolutely loved it, but noticed Toys R Us no longer had anymore MvA stuff despite the movie had just came out. Went online, and voila...all the stuff gone from TRU shelves was now being pilfered at high prices on ebay. I hate those ebay people sometimes. (Especially since almost every 90's and early 2000's video game based toy is going for upwards of a hundred bucks)


These same people took American jobs, gift wrapped them, gave them to China, Mexico, and India (with the exception of Mexico, this made them a stronger economic power than us) just because they could go behind those pesky commie ideas like unions, minimum wage, health benefits... and general safety concerns (them pinkos! Trying to give workers a fare share). And somehow, even with the shipping and duty and fueling it makes everything almost a buck cheaper per unit to produce. Which naturally means they keep everything at the same price. Now we're all suffering from it. but hey, we get to buy lightbulbs at Walmart for 6 cents less than if they were made in the US.

I personally wish more things were made in America. Even made in America, really mades all the parts were made and assembled in Indonesian and Vietnamese sweat shops then "packaged" here.

The US government has sunk trillions into horrific wars that only benefited the wealthy elite, as well as have given out trillions to greedy corrupt bankers and corporations...letting schools, cities, etc dilapitate and most of the big American companies moving overseas for cheap "fair trade" labor. And then insult to injury,
we have these horrific human rights abusing countries like China that have America by the you know what finanically, to the tune of over a trillion. Its bad enough China sends millions of poison products to America, like toys and dog food...they get caught proxying/financing African genocide for secret oil contracts and committing mass human rights abuses on their own people.
And then the other big country the US government is in bed with, Saudi Arabia not only has no rights for women, they keep getting caught sponsoring the very terrorists who attack America and American interests.

And so we have Sesame Street putting out these "This is why your daddy is back with a missing leg and a psychotic breakdown" specials, because the same Washington DC scoundrels who tried to pull the plug on PBS are the ones sending young kids off to die in wars to fight "Islamic militants" the US created and America's Middle Eastern allies secretly finance.

See what ya do Dr Tooth, ya bring the verbose ranter in me, ha.
Now where were we? Oh yes, Disney being stuck in their own box.

[frogboy4]

I personally wish more things were made in America. Even made in America, really mades all the parts were made and assembled in Indonesian and Vietnamese sweat shops then "packaged" here.

For someone interested in not firing workers and lower prices this statement just doesn't make practical sense in the US marketplace. A figure made in America will cost at least 4 times more than made in China. American companies have health care and other benefits to contend with and there are rumblings to achieve greater programs these days - as it should be. However, this all costs money and the company executives will not take a cut in salary. That's not how the free market system works as much as it is unfair. It's nice to want things - and the exploitation of foreign labor has been a dirty little secret for years. Its tentacles are so sharply hooked into the modern economy that it would collapse without it.

Either way you look at it, life is going to get a lot more expensive in this country and foreign labor is still going to be an issue. It's the way of the world and that isn't going to change.

However, I think Disney should have a "test season" of three months where they do just what you said and somehow lower prices. A good idea is to keep them as is, but offer rebates by way of coupons good in every Disney park store. That's the thing, once people are through the gate they're still spending money and that's where the real crunch hits folk.

[heralde]

I personally wish more products were made in America. Even made in America, really mades all the parts were made and assembled in Indonesian and Vietnamese sweat shops then "packaged" here.

I do think some of our poverty stricken areas would be improved if so many jobs weren't overseas. Plus it's more likely the toys we make wouldn't kill us! ;)

[frogboy4]

I do think some of our poverty stricken areas would be improved if so many jobs weren't overseas. Plus it's more likely the toys we make wouldn't kill us! ;)

Do you remember when Walmart stores were all about being "Made in America" as far as both products and their company? They've always been a bottom-line company, but they are the largest culprit behind outsourcing and cheap materials.

Still, would you be willing to pay $29.99 for a $7.99 action figure? That's the reality we're looking at with American made toys. There would be fewer alternative lines as well because that's more of a gamble than the pop-culture of the moment. The reason that Chinese factories use toxic chemicals is due to cutting corners for American corporations do win the competitive bid. To remedy this problem things will just have to cost more. It's not so much about testing the toys as it is improving the entire system.

Back to the firings and entry prices at Disneyland. I'm still weirded about the security at the theme parks. How good is it? How much does that factor into ticket prices? It is a scary thought that nobody talks about and I'm not really a "chicken little" about it or that concerned for safety. I just wonder how it has changed the parks in structure, expense and insurance.

[Ilikemuppets]

Do you remember when Walmart stores were all about being "Made in America" as far as both products and their company? They've always been a bottom-line company, but they are the largest culprit behind outsourcing and cheap materials. I have this saying now where I look a where a product was made and I say something to the tune of "Boy, remember when a product that said Made In China meant quality? Those were the good old days...":shifty:

Enough of that. But Even though Sam Walton sand something that will forever make me mad with WalMart, I somtimes wander if he would have gone for this kind of thing. But seeing is it's just kind of reality now and the way things are done, I may never figure out the answer.

[heralde]

Still, would you be willing to pay $29.99 for a $7.99 action figure? That's the reality we're looking at with American made toys.

Honestly I think we ended up in this mess of killer toys and recalled foods because we went for the cheaper overseas solution . Once again we were reminded there's no such thing as a free lunch (especially from WalMart!).

[frogboy4]

Honestly I think we ended up in this mess of killer toys and recalled foods because we went for the cheaper overseas solution . Once again we were reminded there's no such thing as a free lunch (especially from WalMart!).

It's actually a low amount of toys that were tainted - - however one is too many. But this isn't a new problem, it is one older than we are that has evolved this far.

Still, out of curiousity, you didn't answer the question - would you or anyone you know buy what we now consider a $7.99 figure for $29.99 or one we consider to be 14.99 for nearly 50 dollars? There is not band-aid solution. You can't put toothpaste back into the tube. Toys won't be made in the US - it just won't happen on a wide enough scale.

The solution of tainted toys is not to test them into oblivion so that the smaller companies are crippled. It is to severely fine the larger companies that do business in China if any of their toys are harmful. It really is their doing more than the overseas factories and fines will make them watchdog over their operations rather than legislative bureaucracy.

That’s how it is done in the free market. Make it in the company’s interest to do better and they will. But Mattel and others have beat up the little guy with their low-balled-bidding over in China. Smaller companies are hurting.

This goes for Disney and their parks too. It must be achievable and in their interest to cut prices without cutting quality. I think these recent cuts are their solution. We’ll see how that pans out.

(Oh...and nobody has mentioned the clothing industry. It's still the worst of all. Clothing should cost so much more than they do with the labor required to make them.)

[heralde]

Still, out of curiousity, you didn't answer the question - would you or anyone you know buy what we now consider a $7.99 figure for $29.99 or one we consider to be 14.99 for nearly 50 dollars?

If it meant more Americans would have jobs and if it meant there was less of a chance for lethal manufacturing errors and if it meant Chinese children weren't subjected to near slave labor, then yes I would. ;)

I mean it's like they Hybrid car; it's assumed that people won't want to buy it because it's more expensive. But can we really put a price on our planet? (Sorry to go all 'Captain Planet' on you guys, but still hehe).

[beaker]

However, I think Disney should have a "test season" of three months where they do just what you said and somehow lower prices. A good idea is to keep them as is, but offer rebates by way of coupons good in every Disney park store. That's the thing, once people are through the gate they're still spending money and that's where the real crunch hits folk.

I totally agree. What's the current gate price? $89? (and thats even if ya just want to go to Calif. Adv)

Well I'd say either do a trial baloon of lowering the entrance cost to at least $65 for a special 3 day weekend or on certain days, or do what you said, about the rebate.

One would have to think the accountants and suits have mulled over the very fact that almost $100 a head is just wayyy too much...especially for the far lesser California Adventure.

[beaker]

Back to the firings and entry prices at Disneyland. I'm still weirded about the security at the theme parks. How good is it? How much does that factor into ticket prices? It is a scary thought that nobody talks about and I'm not really a "chicken little" about it or that concerned for safety. I just wonder how it has changed the parks in structure, expense and insurance.

Shoot, I was able to sneak into both California Adventure and Disneyland a couple summers ago. I didnt notice any sort of Orwellian post 9/11 cameras in the bathroom sort of apparatus.
The biggest safety issue I'd imagine is fights breaking out. I cant see security costs figuring too much into the gate tickets. Im guessing, its more maintenence and the cost of everything else going up.

[frogboy4]

If it meant more Americans would have jobs and if it meant there was less of a chance for lethal manufacturing errors and if it meant Chinese children weren't subjected to near slave labor, then yes I would. ;)

I mean it's like they Hybrid car; it's assumed that people won't want to buy it because it's more expensive. But can we really put a price on our planet? (Sorry to go all 'Captain Planet' on you guys, but still hehe).

Yeah, but a hybrid doesn't cost 4 or more times as much. I literally sell action figures in a store and know first hand what most people will spend. Believe it or not - quality has less to do with it than brand. I also know the cost of manufacturing from North America to China and it is very different. :eek:

On the issue of Chinese exploitation - without these slave labor jobs many workers would likely hold no employment. It's a different world over there. I have even heard some religious business professionals cite Biblical grounds to support modern day slave labor. I understand what they're saying, but certainly don't agree. Changing the way the system works, horrible as it is, is as plausible as Superman flying backwards around the world to rewind time to change history. The world marketplace operates in a way that Western civilization hasn't been able to comprehend in well over a century.

I would like prices on figures and other forms of entertainment diversions to be reasonable and I'd like to see more Americans employed. It would also be fantastic to see some of the closed factories reopened to create toys. Many of us would like those things. It just is a realistic dead end. The solution is elsewhere and a lot more complicated.

I've said it before, but this country especially is in its post-college belt-tightening phase. We are having to learn new methods of spending and saving.

Oh - and by the way I just got a Think Green Kermit reusable shopping bag for my birtday. My partner Ian gave it to me and did admit it was expensive, but it is high quality. He's trying to get me greener. :)

[beaker]

I have this saying now where I look a where a product was made and I say something to the tune of "Boy, remember when a product that said Made In China meant quality? Those were the good old days...":shifty:

Enough of that. But Even though Sam Walton sand something that will forever make me mad with WalMart, I somtimes wander if he would have gone for this kind of thing. But seeing is it's just kind of reality now and the way things are done, I may never figure out the answer.

As Frogboy points out, and as I admit, its a vicious cycle.
The fact everything from the "patriotic American flags" to
clothes people wear at Walmart are made in conditions in Vietnam, El Salvador, China and Indonesia that you and I wouldnt step foot in...the prices are affordable for the average household that now has very very little money to work with.
If things were made by American standards, the lower middle class and poor here couldnt afford basic needs.

So yeah, it sucks. And toys are already outrageously high and few and far between(Walmart and Target seems to sell very little action figure lines), that I wonder if we'll just see an eventual decline of such items here.

[beaker]

(Oh...and nobody has mentioned the clothing industry. It's still the worst of all. Clothing should cost so much more than they do with the labor required to make them.)

I have noticed clothes are pretty cheap depending where you go.
I dont buy abercrombie or any of that stuff; so I end up finding a button shirt or something for a few bucks. Was it made by children in forced labor in Equador? Who knows. Was my $300 club boots made from the skin of cattle? I try not to think of it.

As Cypher says in the Matrix, ignorance is bliss! :)

But seriously, I would say to absolutely NOT buy bootleg toys/plushes. We can debate til the cows come home about working conditions in namebrand factories, but all the research shows
that the "factories" that make all that bootleg Mario toy, power rangers, dollar store ripoff stuff use forced child labor, hazardous materials, and often fund criminal organizations/guerrilla groups. Plus it takes money away from the rightful ip holders.

[frogboy4]

I have noticed clothes are pretty cheap depending where you go.
I dont buy abercrombie or any of that stuff; so I end up finding a button shirt or something for a few bucks. Was it made by children in forced labor in Equador? Who knows. Was my $300 club boots made from the skin of cattle? I try not to think of it.

As Cypher says in the Matrix, ignorance is bliss! :)

But seriously, I would say to absolutely NOT buy bootleg toys/plushes. We can debate til the cows come home about working conditions in namebrand factories, but all the research shows
that the "factories" that make all that bootleg Mario toy, power rangers, dollar store ripoff stuff use forced child labor, hazardous materials, and often fund criminal organizations/guerrilla groups. Plus it takes money away from the rightful ip holders.

I don't know their labor practices, but I shop for non-label bits and pieces at H&M and mix them with a bit of Levis (now made overseas too), but its reasonable quality for not so much money. Flashy brand labels are back in a big way and it's kind of gross. The little alligator is back on shirts and the AX emblem is as popular as the polo horse was in the 80s. Everyone looks insecure and over-branded. I don't get the desire for that when I know a genuine smile can easily eclipse any overbearing fashion trend.

I also know that Target is the better one of the chain stores (like Walmart and K-Mart) but it is still far from glowing as far as labor goes. Nature of the beast. But they apparently are carrying more collectibles these days and were the only major retailer to stock Palisades' exclusive Kermit figure.

I digress...at least the staff Disney parks do have are quality workers. One little thing I heard (and it could be just a myth) is that every Disney employee from the artisans to the bean counters have to don a character costume one day in their career for the company. The reason behind it is to see how important the characters are to the public - especially children - and that it should be honored at all times in every duty. It is said that few people make it through the experience without tearing up when countless kids hug them while wearing an iconic costume. I hope this is true.

[Drtooth]

Still, would you be willing to pay $29.99 for a $7.99 action figure? That's the reality we're looking at with American made toys. There would be fewer alternative lines as well because that's more of a gamble than the pop-culture of the moment. The reason that Chinese factories use toxic chemicals is due to cutting corners for American corporations do win the competitive bid. To remedy this problem things will just have to cost more. It's not so much about testing the toys as it is improving the entire system.

That's the problem. They wound up causing a paradox. If they made it in the US with US workers, then it would be too expensive and no one can afford it. But if it's made in another country, it's cheaper, but without anyone working steady jobs, only a few people can afford it. I buckle on the toys and games stuff myself. But there's NO call for clothes and necessities to be manufactured in crummy countries just so the retailers can charge the same amount if they were made in the US . Look at the designers. You think they're making stuff in the US with an American union wage? No! They're being made in the same sweatshops the knockoff products are made in. Nike for example. There's no call for taking 20 cents worth of work added to 5 bucks worth of shoe material and charging 100 bucks per unit.

And I ain't just talking about making toys and stuff either... our Phones are outsourced to India... tech support, financial advisers. Making stuff is one thing... sure, we can all benefit from finding a way around those pesky human rights... but talking on the phones are the ONE thing you'd think Americans could do.

That said, the toy rant is something for another day. I wouldn't want to pay 30 bucks for an 8 dollar action figure... but I still don't think we should pay 8 bucks for a 4 dollar action figure.

[bazooka_beak]

I want to go to Disney World in two years... I hope things are better by then :/ Disney makes so much money it's not like they couldn't afford to take a few falls... they have a cash cow FARM. Raising prices and cutting jobs just makes things worse. A few years ago I was in a Disney World giftshop and the prices for the most ordinary things were ridiculous. $80 for an ugly, could-get-at-Target-for-$9.99 bathing suit?

[heralde]

Maybe I'm idealistic, heh, but we can't complain about the current state of things but then say we just have to let the system keep working. Major upheavals have occured in history, but only through sacrifice. I don't mean sacrifice of ideals, but some kind of going without.

Don't give yourselves to brutes, men who despise you and enslave you - who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think and what to feel, who drill you, diet you, treat you as cattle, as cannon fodder. Don't give yourselves to these...machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts. You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men.

If any form of pleasure is exhibited, report to me and it will be prohibited. I'll put my foot down, so shall it be! This is "the land of the free!"

Again, idealistic perhaps, hehe. But if we don't want idealism, maybe Disney and everybody else should stop making movies. ;)

[frogboy4]

Maybe I'm idealistic, heh, but we can't complain about the current state of things but then say we just have to let the system keep working. Major upheavals have occured in history, but only through sacrifice. I don't mean sacrifice of ideals, but some kind of going without.

Again, idealistic perhaps, hehe. But if we don't want idealism, maybe Disney and everybody else should stop making movies. ;)

Idealism is great, but few people are likely to join a revolution if it results in higher prices for goods and services. Most people shy away from the unpleasant. That's human nature. Working against the grain should be the last option after everything else has been attempted. People are driven by incentive. The answer to all these problems isn't revolution or sacrifice - it is incentive. A spoonful of sugar!

[heralde]

The answer to all these problems isn't revolution or sacrifice - it is incentive. A spoonful of sugar!

I don't think you're incorrect. Incentive has been used too. Yet the system remains flawed. It always needs to be shacken up at different points in history. We'll see what happens. ;)

And I still say, we can't enjoy these movies and entertainment, but then say their messages are too idealistic. Artists in theory aren't there just to entertain us, but to inspire (yes even in a Capitalistic society ;) ).