Your ideas: 4 free 03 Palisades spots?

[frogboy4]

There seem to be about four free non-exclusive spots for the the Palisades 2003 line that have not received confirmation.

I have listed at www.jamesvier.com/muppets/figures
1. Lips
2. Thog
3. Uncle Deadly
4. Variant Kermit

Thog seems iffy unless they can switch out Pops to be carded with his booth and put him in the Backstage playset. I also would rather have a different character in the Kermit variant spot. I think a variant Kermit (other than the Koozebane set) was talked about on the threads. I prefer Nigel (or maybe the introduction of Pepe).

So my picks would be in this order:
1. Lips
2. Thog
3. Nigel
4. Uncle Deadly

What are your pics?

[Zack the Dog]

hmmm.


Thog! Thog! Thog! then I really would like to see an Uncle Deadly fig, Then Lips and i came up with a Kermit in gown that i think would go good with the vets set, but i think it could be a diffrent Kermit too.


Zack)Rowlf the, Dog.

[MrTheFrog]

Hey,
Kermit in gown would be an interesting figure, but I think it would make more sense just to include a gown with the Vet's playset. Then we could have whoever we want with a gown on :)

[frogboy4]

Yeah, I like that seperate gown idea. More guys could be patients that way and it leaves that slot open for something else. Even though 2003 isn't in stone yet, it really seems to be pretty much formed form all the info gathered so far.

[scarecroe]

Mahna Mahna for cripe's sake!

I'm still SO baffled by the omission on everyone's 'Want Lists' for this guy.

I mean, he *did* make number 2 on The Tough Pigs Annual Countdown (http://toughpigs.com/journalcountdown.htm), and that's like, scripture!

[frogboy4]

Mahnah Mahnah would be on my list, but he requires a pack-in Snowth or two which I find unlikely for Palisades' perameters. He deffinitely makes my list, but not in these four. I do think it's weird that Angus got this sort of fanfare from the company, but Mahnah Mahnah keeps getting passed over. I also find the seperate carded, seperate series releases of Statler and Waldorf - in 03, no less - to be strange. But what do I know? I'm just a frogboy.:)

[ZootandDingo]

1. L I P S !!!!!!!

2. Uncle Deadly
3. Nigel
4. Jim Henson Puppet (had to include him) :)

[matleo]

Henson has already nixed the JH puppet. ken told us that once on the other board. From the way Ken told it, they were fairly adamant abou it too. Which I suppose I understand.

My picks for the open '03 spaces? hmmmm

1. Lips
2. Uncle Deadly
3. Pepe
4. Clifford

Remember in '03 it's no longer the TMS 25th anniversary and Ken wants to try and get some other characters.
--Matt

[Zack the Dog]

Mahnah Mahnah yeah i didn't think of him till after i posted, iwas thinking that seeing they can't put Statler and Waldorf together if it was possable to have a Snowth In it's oun package,(you would have to buy two)but i would think of that being down the road a little longer.

yeah the gown seprate would work better, i was just thinking of kermit with a cast on his foot and arm and maybe some chuches and a wheel chair maybe,but there could always be a better kermit, i also thought of robo frog from the muppet show, but it would be the same regular kermit with a wind up key in the back and maybe a box to put him in, but that may be too plain

how about a ring master kermit? or cowbow kermit?


Zack)Rowlf the Dog.

[Fozzie Bear]

Maybe we need Mahna Mahna in a playset package somehow (not really a background or anything) to come with a telephone with a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGGG phone cord to stretch from the backstage phone so Kermit can take it to the Snowths later.

(From the original list in this thread)
Lips, Nigel, Uncle Deadly, Thog

I also like the extra hospital gown in the Vet's playset; makes it certainly more playable for sure then.

Scarecroe...what's a cripe? a pastry?

Heck, I'm just happy that Patrol Bear is back in the list again!!

FOZ

[Kermie19]

I don't post much, but this looked like fun. Here's who I'd like to see.
- Mahna Mahna
- Lips
- Uncle Deadly
- Wind-up Robot Kermit for the Varient Kermit

Kermie19

[towels]

What about a Kermit the Pig?
Wasn't the Pigs Taking Over episode the basis of the first Muppet Show book?

[ResidentLilly]

Hey, aren't there more than only three free spots? The way I see it, after Series 5 there is absolutely nothing set in stone at all. Series 5 is the only one that has actually been started, so to me Series 6-8 would be totally open to guesses or ideas. In fact, I'd like to see what people would do with that line-up possibility. OK, some are obvious choices, like Waldorf, but the rest is open to interpretation. Any thoughts? How would you do it if you were to develop the product line? Sky's the limit...

[frogboy4]

Though I am aware it is all tentative and things can change, I thought most of these ideas were pretty firm because they came from your posts. Well, playing by some of the rules, here's my list of what kind of makes sense and what I'd like to see.

Series 6
1 Nurse Piggy (Thought this was solid)
2 Nurse Janice (Ditto)
3 Waldorf (Needs to come right after Statler)
4 Lips (We all seem to like him!!!)
5 Dr Bob with Vet's Hospital set (Thought this was solid)
* Lips Repaint (Makes sense)
* Vaudeville Waldorf (Thought this was solid)
* Animal Repaint (Maybe in a T-shirt would totally rock!)

Series 7
1 Rizzo (Thought this was solid)
2 Patrol Link (Ditto)
3 Marvin Suggs (Ditto)
4 Nigel (Pleeeease!!)
5 Patrol Bear with set (Thought this was solid)
* Rizzo Repaint (Makes sense)
* Nigel repaint (Plays by the riules)
* Beaker Exploded (Don'y like him filling a regular spot)

Series 8
1 Biker Piggy with Foo Foo (Thought you were cool on the idea)
2 Pops with prop booth (Ditto)
3 Uncle Deadly (Kicks major butt!)
4 Mahnah Mahnah with Snowths (Extrememly necessary)
5 Thog and Gaffer with Backstage set (Worked for Sweetums)
* Piggy repaint (Follows the rules)
* Uncle Deadly repaint (Ditto)
* Bunsen repaint (Matches Beaker)

And if the Backstage set is seperate and deluxe, I'd like to see an environmental set with Kermit possibly. Maybe a Bein' Green sort of theme.

[Fozzie Bear]

Well, I dunno what all folks could add that haven't been added so far to the lists.

Certainly, anything Fozzie where i'm concerned.

There's too much info for me to register and try to remember really, so I have to ask: Where are we in the decision of Mahna Mahna and the Snowths? We have the opportunity with the continuance of the series to have all the characters in costume from the Linda "Wonder Woman" episode, or Elton John episode.

Maybe even some stuff from maybe some specials? Kermit and Piggy in Casablanca from The Muppets Go To The Movies.

I can't think of anything else.

Thanks for listening to us all blab, Ken.

FOZ

PS...
Oh, yeah...what Frogboy said.

[ResidentLilly]

Hey...all those "solid" ones need to be clarified. When I said nothing is set in stone, it might seem to conflict with the perception that some things that I have talked about solidly. It's tough for me to remember that to me this is all thinking out loud to a group who dig the Muppets. But sometimes I know there is an anxiousness to lock stuff down. When I say anything about what I want or what would be a definite in my "opinion" it should always be asterisked by "subject to change".

You guys are actually seeing what happens day to day. Things change all the time in all the stuff I have worked on. Here's an example. Bear on Patrol Fozzie...created as a variant to regular Fozzie in series 2, initially postponed to not have a fully sculptural exclusive in any series. Then moved to a different series. Then bumped out of that series when the Stage gets moved and the Statler and Waldorf figs get put into blisters in favor of Sweetums in the set who really is a cost issue in a blister. Then because of a good conversation or two and some further thought he is moved into a Bear on Patrol projected playset. Then, after some discussions in the office and with some retailers a fully sculptural Fozzie is resurrected as an exclusive for the "Vacation Fozzie". SO theoretically we are back where we started, with a sculptural exclusive for series 2 of Fozzie!

This is the nature of the job...maybe not for all companies, but certainly for ours. We try to stay fluid and responsive and go with the flow. SO it can be frustrating I know...because everybody wants to see their favorite figs made. But at least you know for sure what is in Series 3 and 4, with the exclusives being the only real non solid decisions yet. I think the most difficult part of all this is the WAITING. I have been waiting for the release of Series One since last August when we started settling the license. Man...this stuff takes a while.

Ken

[matleo]

Actually, with a few exceptions, I kinda like Jamie's list (for the most part) I dunno about Nigel. Ditto for Thog. And I don't quite see a Snooth being "packed in" with Mahna mahna but certainly I could see tting them in the same series. Also, Robin isn't listed anywhere but wasn't there talk of putting him in the theater playset now. I don't remember. I do think that down the line, Angus McGarnalge would be cool, But I don't think the timing is right for him to be in Series 5. Maybe around 7 or so when more of the real FAVE guys are out there. Angus would be good, but who knows. I'd also like to see JP Grosse as well as Lewis Kazaager at some point. The problem is keeping that "fizz" in each wave so that it does as well as the last one.

Oh and Ken, when and if you get to doing that Patrol Bear set, you should include an octopus. Consider it a heads-up on a fan-nugget. Fozzie picks up the octopus for pick-pocketing and wrestles with it whiel Link bumbles through some paper work. The phone rings and Link answers it while Fozzie is basicall being strangled. Then Link leans over and tells Fozzie ot get down to the aquarium casue their prize octopushas been kidnapped. The ocotpus stands up (wearing Fozzie's uniform), salutes Link, and leaves.

--Matt

[ResidentLilly]

WAY ahead of you on that one. I loved that skit and had already planned the Octopus as a possible accessory. Perfect for a soft PVC piece. But keep them ideas coming...

[Fozzie Bear]

I LOVE the octopus Bear on Patrol Sketch!! HEE HEE!!

FOZ

[frogboy4]

matleo

I was thinking about an octopus for the set too. Very cool! About Robin, I think that it was expressed that he would come with Sweetums. I hope he does.

Ken

The list I have put up from 6-8 is listed as tentative, but are from collected posts and the extreme guesses are marked. That is where the 4 free spots came from. Not that everything is locked down, but that is what we have been given to go on so far. The 4 extra spots haven't had any substancial reports so that's where the idea of the thread came from. Much of it makes sense though Lewis Kazzager and JP would be nice additions as has been stated by others.:)

[Fozzie Bear]

I want my own octopus. And a bowl of Jell-O...but that's ALL I'm gonna say about that!

FOZ

[dan]

I'd really like several chickens and penguins. It would also be cool to have several of those nameless pigs.

Oh, and rats. Rats are good.

[Zack the Dog]

Hey! I'm glad you like the wind up robot kermit, but i'm open for more ideas that might be more diffrent.




Zack)Rowlf the, wind up dog.(does a back flip)"...Bark...Bark..."Dog.

[Zack the Dog]

I was thinking much later if Robin could be made in his frogscout uiniform, (Debbie Harry ep)I don't know if Kermit appered in a Frog Scout uiniform in another ep? but they would look cool together in uiniforms.

i was hoping for the octopus with the patrol set!!!

how about the band in their pit uinforms? i thinks it's too late for them to be the repaints, just a brainstorming idea.

I almost forgot about Statler and Waldorf in their super hero outfits and the very end of the ep! they would look cool!

Cowbow Kermit and Cowbow Fozzie and Link in a sailor outfit or a Viking outfit would be grea too!


Zack)Rowlf the, how about gonzo in his armor suit?Dog.

[matleo]

I like the viking Link idea. And possibly the sailor uniforms. As for S&W in hero outfits, only Statler appeared in one (as Money-man) but doing one for Waldorf would be cool too. kinda like the Sam minuteman figure. I'd actually be cooler with seeing waldorf asa superhero than the Sam minuteman. I have no doubt about the success of this line. But I certinaly hope that it is successful enough that it continues for a while and we can see some of the more obscure but fun stuff we'd all love to see.

--Matt

[Fozzie Bear]

Hey, wonder how they could do a "Macho Man" costume change for Link and Gonzo? THAT was a funny sketch!

[Alex888]

I must say…

1) NIGEL: He conducted the orchestra. Was NOT in that many sketches. IS a unique and wonderful character. Deserves to be made.
2) LIPS: Is an INTEGRAL part of Electric Mayhem. He is ANOTHER unique character and deserves to be made. He is one of the few YELLOW Muppets on The Muppet Show. Along with Nigel he would add to the color variety and make for an aesthetically pleasing collection.
3) GEORGE the Janitor: George has a great Muppet face. He is one of the few “human” characters. Probably even went to school with Statler & Waldorf. He cleans up the Muppet theatre for Pete’s sake. If Beau is going to be made…then his boss and role model should be there to see him through his clean-up duties.
4) MILDRED: Another very unique addition to the original Muppet family. She is Bright fuchsia!! She has pointy glasses and was voiced by Frank Oz! She is a wonderful character. No set would be complete without her. I know others agree…but we have just stopped hounding about her.
5) HILDA: Okay…I agree she is not that EXCITING of a character…but come on! Who doesn’t love her when she is on stage (or behind it). You have to make the people who kept the show going behind stage. PLUS is you are going to go all out…you can make George and Mildred and leave out the third point on that steamy LOVE TRIANGLE they obviously had going!!!
6) UNCLE DEADLY: Everyone would love to see him made. He was one of my favorites since I saw him. Talk about unique. I thin kyou are set on making him anyway, so I don’t need to talk him up.
7) THOG: You know, I love THOG too…but if I get only one big guy…SWEETUMS is my choice. If Thog isn’t made, I will understand and won’t be too broken up…he would be nice, but don’t replace some of these characters with voices and personalities with him. Make him a playset, not a figure in the line-up.
8) MAHNA-MAHNA: He is a cult favorite. No doubt. But he really wasn’t in the family. I would love to have him, but I think he is less important than some of these other guys. ONLY because he was never really developed other than…doo-doo bee doodoo…
9) WAYNE & WANDA: Would be a great two pack. They are just two poor schmoes who got dragged into the madness that was The Muppet Show. They only added to the mix…never detracted. Maybe you could make a three pack with Uncle Deadly. They kind of went together.
10) BOPPITY & GLOAT FRACKLES: These would make another fantastic two pack. They are in promos, were always in the show. Spoke some…not much…but always made a striking visual impression. They are great characters…and you have to have at least a couple of monsters to have a Muppet Show collection right?

Alex G. Bowman

[Wozza Fraggle]

Chill and leave some gaps...


Richard Hunt performed Mildred...


Frank Oz performed Miss Piggy...


See ya

[Alex888]

I am sorry but I have a question. I have an important picture I would like to post here. I have it saved on my "paint" program and on my desktop. Wil someone PLEASE tell me how to post it here.

The Untechnological wonder...alex zealand

[Alex888]

Also...

1) ANNIE SUE: Piggy's rival! We need to make more female figures anyway right?

2) POPS: Gotta have Pops! He greeted the guests! He is a backstage mainstay!!

3) MARVIN SUGGS: I love him, but I don't really care if he is made. He is after all just a performer. Never much in teh way of a "character" like Pops or George. He would be great though

4) J.P. GROSSE: Again...wouldn't mind if he wasn't made, but he owns the theater. Maybe he should come with it. hmm...you could pack in a photo albulm with tiny pics of Scooter and Skeeter as babies...hehe...he is their uncle right?

alex

Please will someone post a picture for me? I have made an alternate sketch of the LEW ZEALAND figure and compared the two. email me if you will post it for me. Or at least tell me how. IT IS IMPERATIVE!! argh! :)

[beaker]

Well, I was at Toys R US yesterday...and I overheard a worker talking to someone in the store in the action figure aile...the worker said 'Yeah, The Simpsons line just isnt moving at all anymore'...and I jumped in and said 'aw, you know what everyone is saying is gonna be the next Simpsons line? Palisade's Muppet show line'...and I swear both the worker and the guy lit up...'Oh yeah! I think Wizard is offering a tuxedo tux Kermit'..'Have you seen the paint detail on those?' A bit of an unscientific poll, but I think its safe to say(Especially from seeing those great finished blister packed pix) the Muppet show figures are gonna be the hottest thing around this summer and beyond.
I think avergae collectors and enthusists who might not even know about the line, will be plesantly surprised when they go into their local kb, eb, hot topic, toys r us, comic shop, etc in a few weeks!

///beaker///

[ElecMayhem]

If I were the King of Palisades, here is how I would break series 5-8 down:

SERIES 5: (I know this one is already 90% established)
Gonzo in purple suit (w/ Camilla)
Beauregard
Statler
Newsman
PLAYSET: Koozebane w/ Trenchcoat Kermit

SERIES 6:
Nurse Piggy
Nurse Janice
Waldorf
Uncle Deadly
PLAYSET: Vets Lab w/ Dr. Bob

SERIES 7:
Blown up Beaker
Rizzo
Pops
Officer Link
PLAYSET: Bear-On-Patrol Station w/ Patrol Fozzie

SERIES 8:
Alternate Sam the Eagle (Uncle Sam?)
Pepe (***if NO Pepe, insert Alternate Scooter here***)
Mahna-Mahna (w/ Snowths)
Marvin Suggs
PLAYSET: Dressing Room w/ Alternate Miss Piggy


I have a LOT of ideas actually, but maybe I should save my series 9-12 for another time!!

Travis

[ResidentLilly]

Let's hear 'em Travis...I am intrigued. Although I would, if I were to crit your choices, not pick the Miss Piggy playset where you put it. Why? I would go with something more choice, like a Backstage Set, since it would be around Christmas when it comes out (I know you didn't know that) and also because of a Piggy I am thinking about for '03 that I REALLY want to do.

But all in all...good line plan. You could make a career out of this...

Ken

[Zack the Dog]

Yes Travis, that is a good line! I would only change the scooter alternet to Lips, that way we can get him in there, and then with the back stage set with robin and sweetums.

Zack)Rowlf the,dog

[ElecMayhem]

Zack-

I put the Scooter alternate at the end there for a reason. I wanted to stick with the "2 big guns, 1 secondary, and one fan favorite" format for each series.

5 6 7 8
BIG GUN 1 Gonzo Piggy Beaker Sam
BIG GUN 2 Statler Waldorf Rizzo Scooter
SECONDARY Beau Janice Link Marvin Suggs
FAN FAVE Newsman Deadly Pops Mahna-Mahna

I don't work in the industry, but from what I have gathered, you have to have the "big guns" there to anchor the line. In a similar fashion, you have to have a popular, recognizeable character enclosed with the playset... or else they will sit on the shelf. With my plan for 5-8 (although, as I said, 5 was not really MY idea) the playsets would come with Kermit, Rowlf (Dr. Bob), Fozzie, and Piggy -- ALL BIG GUNS.

My original plan included Pops with a stage door playset, but I realized that Pops would probably not move too many playsets. While all of the Muppet fans would buy it, the general public probably would not.

Ken-

Thanks!! Give me a little more time to formulate what I would like to do with 9-12 and I will post it.

As for your suggestion about the backstage playset... I thought about that. Honestly I did. But I was going to suggest making that a larger playset -- like the Stage playset w/ Sweetums -- and selling it independent of any specific Series.

I have been wracking my brain to come up with "Muppet Labs Sized" playsets -- especialy playsets that could include variations of major characters. That's why I suggested a dressing room. It is a space that was used on over half of the shows, and it would fit Miss Piggy perfectly. Just an idea.

Anyway, more to come. Thanks for the encouragement.

Travis

[Zack the Dog]

Oh I see now;-) yes, i guess i was only thinking of just getting Lips in there just to say they ended with only 8 series.just shove the stage set, back stage set, and a Lips and Thog fig in there and you got a perfect entire Muppet Show set!

well i would actualy rather have an animal alternate then Scooter seen that Scooter will most likely have an exculsive "at least another fourm of him" and animal will only have one fig and he's going to be very popular, but as Ken said they may do an Animal repaint for the next fair in san fran, being another harder fig to get with only 400 made.

so then Scooter could be done if that and no Pepe, but what kinda Scooter were you thinking of? Ringmaster Scooter from the dancing bear song in the first ep of the MS? that would be cool with a mustash,top hat, wip and all. and Fozzie was just good old fozzie in that so they could be paired together latter when you own them both.

Zack)Rowlf the, or alternate Kermit would be good too,but it would be nice to give it to scooter or animal,Dog.

[frogboy4]

I see that there is a way that Gonzo, Beauregard, Statler, Newsman, Reporter Kermit, Nurse Piggy, Dr. Bob, Waldorf, Lips, Exploded Beaker, Patrol Link, Patrol Bear, Marvin Suggs, Uncle Deadly, Rizzo, Motorcycle Piggy, Pops, Gaffer, Sweetums, Robin and Thog can all be included in 2003 and Pepe as well. I don't see what the whole competition is. I would like Nigel, Lewis Kazagger or even Annie Sue, but I could wait for them. I would also like to see Mahnah Mahnah, but there has been a reported problem with the rights.

Since it looks like 2 versions of Sam are already coming out, I don't see the need for a third Sam figure coming out next year.

[Zack the Dog]

Yes Jamie, that's a good point, of all the figs Kermit and Miss Piggy will have the most(which they should!)
the regular Kermit and Piggy, Tux Kemit and long haried Piggy, Reporter Kermit and Firstmate Piggy along with Nurse Piggy, and then maybe Motorcycle Piggy

...hmm the Pig gets more, maybe there should be another Kermit like frog scoutmaster Kermit with packin Frogscout Robin, even thought I'm not sure if Kermit appeard like that in the show.just an idea.

have it been stated the foo foo will come with the vets set or motorcycle piggy?either will work.

all thought i like the idea of another Sam, I'm not too big on the Tux, not that i don't like it, but uncle Sam "Sam" would be the top of my list!

I know the Swdish Chef wouldn't really make much of a diffrent repaint,(Bunsen as well) but just to add a shot gun with Chef would be neat,but there are MUCH better ideas.

Animal does need a repaint.

Zack)Rowlf the, Dog.

[ElecMayhem]

Frogboy -

I see what you mean about Sam; however, ONE of the two variations coming out is a proposed EXCLUSIVE, and I did not consider those among the regular assortment... Some fans may not be able to get them -- that is why I included a second Sam.

As for Pepe, the general vibe that I am getting is that people would rather see the classics come first... so in my "plan," I am sticking to classic TMS characters.

Again, these are just my prelimiary ideas. More to come... (I know, I know... please try to contain your excitement... LOL)

[frogboy4]

Ken was talking about a possible Animal repaint this year.

Anyway, the reason I'm not hot on another Sam or Kermit is that they are unneccessary 2004-type figures. I'd rather see some characters that haven't yet been made at all - much less someone like Sam (who will have 2 figures already) and Kermit (Who will have 3 by then). I'm sure more Kermits will come out if the line makes past 03 and possibly another Sam and Bunsen too, but I really hope they don't clog up the regular selection. Keep in mind that the Kermit and Sam you propose would be choice, so they would come in the reguar line. I'd rather have any number of other characters first. :)

[frogboy4]

I understand your loyalty toward classic characters, but I think if people on the board had a choice between Pepe and a second..uhum...third version of Sam, they'd prefer Pepe. Why another Scooter too? I'd rather see Nigel, Lewis Kazagger or even Mildred before a second or actually third version of a character.

[ElecMayhem]

Jamie-

I see what you mean. But my understanding of the situation, as it stands now, is that Henson is not supporting making some of the characters into figures. Wayne, Wanda, Hilda, Mildred, and George -- the last that I heard -- were probably not going to make the cut. Even Lips was, at one time anyway, given the thumbs down by Henson.

I certainly don't want to put words into anyone's mouth, but that is my understanding of the situation. With over 1000 posts regarding to these figures between the old board and the new, it is possible -- or rather likely -- that I have missed something, or that something has changed and it slipped by me.

We (the fans) can talk about it until we are blue in the face, but if Henson doesn't want these chraracters made -- and objectively, I can see why -- then they will not get made. I have to say, I agree with Henson's decision. The aforementioned characters are NOT recognizeable to the general public, and could effectively contribute to the demise of this wonderful line. I mean, we are getting Crazy Harry, Lew Zealand, Link Hogthrob, Dr. Strangepork... Even if they stop after Series 4, I think that the Muppet fan community has done well...

From a marketing stand-point, I can understand Henson's rejecting some of the Muppet characters we know and love. When I do post my "dream" Series 9-12, you will see that I have included Annie Sue, Lips, Nigel, and Lewis Kazagger... But these characters -- if they do get made -- would have to be slippped in occassionally with the new versions of the characters that EVERYONE (casual and die hard fans alike) know and love. The characters who will keep this line alive and thriving.

Again, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth. These are just my opinions and in no way reflect anything that Henson or Palisades is saying or doing. That having been said, I do work in marketing, and I am trying to keep this stuff in the back of my mind while attempting to predict what I think is a realistic plan for the future...

Travis

[ZootandDingo]

Originally posted by frogboy4
Keep in mind that the Kermit and Sam you propose would be choice, so they would come in the reguar line. I'd rather have any number of other characters first. :)

Agreed. As much as I like Sam, I don't think we need to see a new one of him every year. Palisades will already have enough big guns to juggle variations around to keep them available every year (Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, Gonzo, Animal, maybe Rowlf or Scooter). I can wait until 2004 for another Sam.

In fact, in the future what I would like to see Palisades do is offer the big stars in ways that wouldn't muscle in on the normal assortments. Like maybe a Kermit and Piggy two-pack for Christmas of '03 or a Gonzo deluxe stunt accessory set. You know, stand-alone items that will keep the major characters readily available and still leave the general figure series open for new characters.

It seems to be a fine line to walk when a company needs to keep a figure line alive after so long, yet still make the line fresh and exciting for collectors from the get-go. Hasbro is probably the worst example of how to do it with their Batman line. They only introduce new characters now in 20-dollar four-packs at TRU (and I mean one new character, three rehashed characters in each set).

While on the other hand, Hasbro seems to do this well with their Star Wars line. They make a new Luke or Vader or Han every so often, and then they try to offer a whole assortment of new characters.

[frogboy4]

I just think a Pepe would be better than a 3rd version of a character and he would contribute to the longevity of the line. As for lesser known characters, Ken has expressed a liking for Lewis Kazagger and Lips is on the fence it seems, but certainly not with us fans. Most of us are for him, of course.

I just don't see why all the "main group" of 7-10 characters need to be represented every year. I do understant taht the fan faves would need to be sprinkled in, but there are already enough big guns that have been green-lighted by Ken (as much as they can be approved right now) that we don't need to add unneccessary multiple versions of Sam the Eagle next year. It's a great idea, but maybe further down the line. Just my view.:) I just can't imagine that everybody's supporting multiple versions of characters over a fave like Pepe. I do not think that is the case.

[ZootandDingo]

Originally posted by frogboy4
I just don't see why all the "main group" of 7-10 characters need to be represented every year. I do understant taht the fan faves would need to be sprinkled in, but there are already enough big guns that have been green-lighted by Ken (as much as they can be approved right now) that we don't need to add unneccessary multiple versions of Sam the Eagle next year.

Well, and I can't speak for Palisades as they may have a different thinking on this, traditionally variants come about because a toy manufacturer is worried that if the main character(s) isn't represented, then a consumer may pass on whoever is available.

So, in this case, next year at some time a small boy may really get into The Muppets and want to start collecting the figures, but he may soon lose his interest if he doesn't see a Kermit or a Piggy.

I have no real problem with variants of characters as long as they make sense (ie-Dr. Bob, First Mate Piggy) and aren't crowding the space that an all-new character can go. But as I said, we don't need another Sam so soon.

[frogboy4]

But Kermit and Piggy are already listed in the line up. So are Fozzie and Gonzo. I donw see why any more of them need to be duplicated next year. It's not that I don't get your point - I just think it goes a little overboard with making third versions of series one characters.

[ZootandDingo]

Originally posted by frogboy4
But Kermit and Piggy are already listed in the line up. So are Fozzie and Gonzo. I donw see why any more of them need to be duplicated next year.

Exactly, and that's kind of the point I was making. As long as Palisades keeps the bigger stars available every year, and still leaving plenty of room for fresh characters, then older and newer collectors should be happy.


It's not that I don't get your point - I just think it goes a little overboard with making third versions of series one characters.

But why? As you said, Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, and Gonzo are already slated in 2003 assortments, and there is still plenty of room for new characters and other popular variations of the 2002 characters. I just don't see where the harm is in doing something like that for 2004 for those four characters.

I like Sam (the example we've been discussing), but I have never considered him to be a "big gun" in terms of Muppet licensing. When I worked for Warner Bros., they ranked all of the Hanna-Barbera characters in terms of marketability and recognizability as either A, B, or C characters. I would probably classify Sam as a B character. Unless it was something that either looked really cool or was a novel idea, I don't see a need to have another Sam figure in 2003. But in terms of characters like Kermit, Piggy, etc., they will always be in the mix somehow. That's just the nature of the toy beast, like it or not.

As I said, I wouldn't mind a new Kermit, or new Gonzo, etc. once a year, as long as they are interesting and true-to-character. But there is very little need for a new Sam, or a new Lew, or a new Crazy Harry every year.

[frogboy4]

Sam is considered by Palisades to be a big gun. I don't really consider him one either.

I see the need to at least include a Kermit and Piggy each year because of their status (though I still wish it were different) but I don't think that Fozzie, Gonzo, Animal, Rowlf, Scooter and Beaker need one every year. Maybe one of them, but I just think there are too many duplicates already. I'm all for new "classic" characters being introduced. If it's up to another Fozzie Bear coming out, I'd rather see Pepe etc.

Many people have been mentioning dupe-versions of Kermit, Piggy, Gonzo and Fozzie other than the ones that are slated to appear in 03. Reporter Kermit, Nurse Piggy (maybe a Motorcycle Piggy), Patrol Bear and Purple suited Ginzo (with a sweater version exclusive) have all been pretty much confirmed for 03 and people keep thinking up more ideas to rehash released characters while Pepe gets snubbed. I can understand it if there were a Lips in his place, but not a billionth version of Fozze Bear or Beaker. Just my view. Actually, I would still like to see Mildred and George.