Muppet Babies Questions

[Drtooth]

Uh.. excuse me. Someone once told me that Dr. teeth was on Muppet Babies, but I don't believe them. Could someone clear that up? Could he have been on Muppet Monsters and Mysteries?

[Herald7]

Hmmm now that you say that, it sounds familiar. But I don't know.

[Skeeter Muppet]

As far as I know, the only member of the Electric Mayhem to make an appearance on Muppet Babies was Janice, and she was just a little older than the others.


-Kim

[Herald7]

Janice?? Wow, really? When was this???

[Drtooth]

I don't think the book I got the information from is correct, now that you think about it! They called Rowlf a ...a..BEAR!!!!!!

And..uh..skeeter? What about Animal?

[Herald7]

The only thing I can think of is that there was one episode when Kermit makes a wish that they could be in the movies when they grow up or something and they show a quite scene from The Great Muppet Caper. I think Dr. Teeth was in that! :)

[kansasteen14]

Janice was on it as a pre-teen who couldnt read and Skeeter remember Animal was on it to.

[Beauregard]

Bonston and Beeker used to apear some times didn't they?

I have only seen , Muppet Babies: The Next Generation, Transcontinental Cho Cho, and Happy Birthday Uncle Piggy.

I couldn't help feeling sorry for Scooter though!!! An d Piggy for that matter!! That Skeeter was a terror!!!

I think it is sooo funny that it is made for children and it is a PG (in England) and the Muppets are made for adults and they are Us (in England)

[Fozzie Bear]

I never could get into them, they were part of Piggy's imagination in TMTM, and do NOT fit into the chronology of The Muppets at all!! There is no way I can accept them.

The other thing that messes it all up for me is in the Muppet Family Christmas, after she IMAGINES them all as babies they pull out a FILM CLIP of them as Muppet Babies, and THAT throws out the whole chronology.

Sometimes, writers just don't keep their stories in mind.

[Cantus Rock]

Heh, dude, chilly down my friend!

Ya gotta remember, it is the Muppets. Not everything has to make sense...you also have to realize that Muppet Babies go beyond the Muppets and true blue Muppet fans. The Muppet Babies, whether they were just supposed to be a fantasy or not, became a childrens show that influenced generations. It was entertaining with familiar characters and helped kids use their imagination. If you can't accept it in the "orderly progression of Muppet-dom," at least take it for that, which is what it is. :)

-Matt

[Beauregard]

I think of them as stories.

But as for their being for little children, how come they are rated PGs and the Muppets are rated U???

In England that is.

[Fozzie Bear]

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
you also have to realize that Muppet Babies go beyond the Muppets and true blue Muppet fans. The Muppet Babies, whether they were just supposed to be a fantasy or not, became a childrens show that influenced generations.-Matt

The thing that really stunk about the Muppet Babies is that a whole generation was raised on those and had no idea that there was a "real" kermit, piggy, et al, and when my own family members came down to visit it was me who had to convince them that the Muppets were the real deal, and not taken after the cartoon!

Just like training someone that Raphael, Michaelangelo, Donatello, and Leonardo were not turtles, you know?

Good point, tho...something I never thought of doing is taking it as a continuation of Piggy's fantasies.

But then, there's that VILE footage they showed in Muppet Family Christmas!!!

NO!! I can't accept them!! AAAUUUUUUGH!!

Oh, oh...i need an aspirin...

F:DZ

[Baby Rowlf]

Aw, come on, the Muppet Babies were cute!:) You can't possibly deny Baby Rowlf the cute factor anyway.:) I think he was a hit in the MTM sequence!:)

[Fozzie Bear]

Hiya,

Yeah, they were cute. I liked them in TMTM. The rest of the MB stuff throws the whole possibility of Muppet Story Chronology out of whack. They just don't fit in because they were part of Piggy's fantasy of her and Kermit meeting as Babies.

I have tried to place them into the story somehow, but I can't do it so I feel good with it.

Oh, and I 'did' meet the guy who did the voice of Baby Fozzie in the cartoon at MuppetFest, so THAT was kewl!

And, still, nobody gave me my aspirin. :(

[Warrick]

Dr. Teeth was in an episode of Muppet Babies !

It is the actual Puppet and performed by Jim Henson, The scenes were made specially for Muppet Babies too !

He appears in 'Muppets Not Included' and is just the Puppet with a black background.
Its the Dr. Teeth Puppet used in Muppets Take Manhattan.

He says -

"Yeah, Man that sounds good!"

"Right on, Hehe"

"Keep Practising"

Its great to see !

And there is also another Episode called '50 Flags Around The Nursery' where an animated version of 'Pigs In Space' was shown and a 'Kermit Private Eye' cartoon too.

They were both from Little Muppet Monsters saturday morning line up called Muppets, Babies and Monsters.

See ya

[beaker]

Originally posted by Fozzie Bear
The thing that really stunk about the Muppet Babies is that a whole generation was raised on those and had no idea that there was a "real" kermit, piggy, et al, and when my own family members came down to visit it was me who had to convince them that the Muppets were the real deal, and not taken after the cartoon!

I never could get into them, they were part of Piggy's imagination in TMTM, and do NOT fit into the chronology of The Muppets at all!! There is no way I can accept them.



Well I hate to vehemently disagree with ya Kev, as ya know you rock in my books(so does Muley^_^) but...

I consdier Muppet Babies the single greatest cartoon that I was raised on. Yes; I loved Transformers, TMNT, and other cartoons endlessly...but it was Muppet Babies that really honed in and celebrated using your imagination and creativity. I wish I had some of those episodes on tape, as theres some really astonishingly cool episodes. By the late 80's I got out of it(ie: when the animation changed, and Bean Bunny and Janice were added)

Second, it would be hard to think there is actually a large number of people from our generation who only knew the Muppets from Muppet Babies. I mean I was raised on original syndication TMS, Sesame, movies, specials, and even FR(well, the cartoon) Not to mention I had already been into classic Muppets before the show aired. (Im not old! Im 24 going on 11, hehe)

Lastly, the Muppet Babies in no way shape or form is part of Muppet canon. Muppet Babies is about as much a part of the Muppet universe as Farscape and Dark Crystal. There is no messing up the chronology or revisionist history as the Muppet Babies is its own self contained thing. I mean I dont think star Trek TNG was on in the 50's when Kermit was growing up^_^
(Then again, the kids in KSY wear modern backpacks...oh well)

[Fozzie Bear]

No doubt MB was a great cartoon, but the major consensus of 'fans' during that time thought THOSE were THE Muppets. And as a story teller I can't consider it stand-alone since it uses the same names as their adult counterparts and was always part of Piggy's fantasy--UNTIL Muppet Family Christmas when Scooter showed the reel of them as Muppet Babies, a time which they were attempting to throw the characters into the chronology of the Muppet Story and it threw everything out of whack then. Had they just NOT done that with the Muppet Babies in MFC, THEN I could have better accepted the MB cartoon as a continuation of Piggy's fantasy from TMTM.

Like I said, a great cartoon--just throws things out of whack is all.

This is the reason that Muley's history book (not cartoon form, but novel form) begins at his birth. I'm VERY much into continuity
and try hard hard HARD to keep that in my own stuff.

But it's only my opinion.

[Drtooth]

Originally posted by *Warrick*

And there is also another Episode called '50 Flags Around The Nursery' where an animated version of 'Pigs In Space' was shown and a 'Kermit Private Eye' cartoon too.

Yeah! i have that video. When I first saw it, I knew it had to be FROM something. The Animation and Music was different, and I was SOOOO confused. Luckily, someone pointed that out on another board a while back (Before I came to Muppet Central).

I get what beaker's sayin'. In fact, for a while, every Saturday morning, before the network line up, I used to watch the syndicated reruns of TMS, then Muppet Babies, then Fraggle Rock TAS. Quite a Henson treat, if you think about it.

But I also feel for what Fozzie is saying. It's very weird and it is so against continuation. Of course, so isn't the movie, when Scooter was the EM band manager. (Perhaps, his Uncle owned the band too..) Of course, the film also said they got their break in Hollywood, which we know, Kermit got hios start in D.C., then got national attention in New York, and TMS was filmed in London....

To tell you the truth, I gave up following continuity after watching the Simpsons. I mean, they got married in a church, a hospital room, AND a casino? Pick one, and stick to it... Forget it...

[beaker]

Originally posted by Fozzie Bear
No doubt MB was a great cartoon, but the major consensus of 'fans' during that time thought THOSE were THE Muppets. And as a story teller I can't consider it stand-alone since it uses the same names as their adult counterparts and was always part of Piggy's fantasy--UNTIL Muppet Family Christmas when Scooter showed the reel of them as Muppet Babies, a time which they were attempting to throw the characters into the chronology of the Muppet Story and it threw everything out of whack then. Had they just NOT done that with the Muppet Babies in MFC, THEN I could have better accepted the MB cartoon as a continuation of Piggy's fantasy from TMTM.


you do bring up an interesting point about MFC. I think it is one of the best JHC productions ever, and my fave Muppet thing next to MTM, JHH and M@WDW. I think this is one of the coolest examples of how fun it is to see all three franchises together under one big cozy roof so to speak(tho they did it sort of in MTM)

Now then, I think what you are referring to is live action puppet Muppet Babies, as also seen in MTM and the pages of Muppet Magazine. I firmly believe Muppet Babies is its own universe/canon. What you see in MTM is Piggy's imagination.
Now...convenently the scene you speak of in MFC has been edited out in my version on dvd. But yes, youre right...it is weird showing home movies when they never met before.
I dont think TMM is a true backstory to the Muppets. Neither is KSY in my opinion. I dont think though, any continuity is messed up by MB, for the simple fact that with the exception of the Scooter playing the home movies scene...it is never mentioned anywhere that was their past.

Ive seen other continuity impossibilities in other media. I mean in the Seinfeld world, Paul from Mad About You originally subletted
Kramer's apartment...but then there is an episode where George and his fiance are watching Mad About You.
Also, The Simpsons is the same universe as Futurama, just different times. Kudos and Kang make that bridge possible. But in an episode of Futurama they find a mountain of Simpsons merchandise. So my point is...ack, I forget. ^_^

[Drtooth]

Originally posted by beaker


Ive seen other continuity impossibilities in other media. I mean in the Seinfeld world, Paul from Mad About You originally subletted
Kramer's apartment...but then there is an episode where George and his fiance are watching Mad About You.

And there was an episode where Paul met Jerry Seinfeld in person on the street!

But then again, Janice was on the show, older than the rest of thecharacters, and Statler and Waldorf LOVED the kids, so something is going on there!

[Fozzie Bear]

I FINALLY saw Kermit's Swamp Years last night.

Cute. The addition of YOUNG Statler and Waldorf (same puppets from MCC?) was a fun joke, including the addition of "Young Jim Henson" helping Kermit up off the ground in Leland, MS. I like the little fan tidbits they put throughout. Was a little stretched out in some parts, but over all I thought it was a cute, fun little film.

While watching it, I do feel that it COULD fit into the Muppets' History from Kermit's angle. It's not really even the Muppets' history as much as his own. The thing with Young Jim throws Kermit's supposed age of 30-something out of whack, and adding Statler and Waldorf was a stretch (why would THEY be in Leland MS??). Otherwise, it all still worked out okay.

Back to Muppet Babies, I developed this theory to "TRY" to fit it into the scheme of the Muppet History, and I'm still not pleased.

At MFest they had a list of Kermits drawn out from birth to old age. There was MB Kermit. I'm supposing then that somewhere CLOSE to Leland, MS, there was a nursery, run by a Nanny, and during the infancy years the MB were there--together--hence the addition of the cartoon and the addition of the live footage Scooter shows in MFC. As they got a little older, they got seperated back their homes because they didn't need a Nanny anymore, the Muppet's parents moved to different parts of the country, and they kind of forgot about one another. But FATE brings them all back together in their trek to Hollywood in TMM.

By the time of MTM, Miss Piggy might have forgotten all about their childhood together (as she was NOW a diva) and subconsciously remembered in her 'fantasy.'

Why am I still not pleased with this story?

TMM=everyone meets for the first time. The first film, Jim was there, and it HAS to be considered the true story of the Muppets, even if it was "sort of approximately how it happened." It allows the above theory of the MB to exist in the Muppet world but thus excludes the story of MTM because according to that movie, they all met in college, which kind of gives lee-way toward the 'sort of approximately how it happened' line that Kermit delivers in TMM.

If so, the chronology would be such that we would follow the formula:
MB, KSY, TMTM (they all go back to their respective homes after college and their Broadway show, do some other things, lose touch), TMM (which describes their story prior to TMS), and then TMS, followed by MFC and MFS (Gonzo's story and where the heck Frackles really come from). The GMCaper would fit in there as just a "movie" by the Muppets rather than a part of their history, which they sing about with "Hey! A Movie!", as would the films MCC and MTI (since they don't even play themselves). I know it's hated, but after the chronology of the Muppet's story, MFS would follow MFC.

So, what's wrong with this historical chronology? Well, at the end of TMTM it was scripted in that Kermit and Piggy get married after graduating college, which Kermit to this day denies as reality (and I believe the Frog), so that would have put them married throughout TMS, but the "idea" of their scripted-marriage could be the lead-in to the reason Piggy is so caught up on Kermit: she has had a crush on him since the nursery days, lost contact until college, then the trek from college back to their respective homes and then to Hollywood, then throughout the Muppet Show years until now.

I know the actual release dates of the movies and shows as I've listed it are not in actual order, but based on trying to fit MB into the perspective of everything I have to figure that they make movies, then go back and tell a part of the story that was left out. Kind of like Episode 1 Star Wars follows Episode 6, see?

Now, about the Swamp Years. Leland MS has no swamp listed to it on the maps. The closest to it would be near the Mississippi River in Greenville, which, if memory serves correct, is where Jim was born. If that's the case, a LOT of truth has to be noticed in Swamp Years as they swam wasn't IN Leland, the little frogs had to travel quite a distance to get there, perhaps leaving from the "swamps" near the river and going east to Leland.

Anyways, as you can see, I think WAY on yonder too deeply about stuff like continuity, and I'm still TRYING to make the stories all work together so I can fit in MB. But, MAN, is it hard! Takes a lot out of a little bear like myself.

FOZ

[Fozzie Bear]

Originally posted by Drtooth
But then again, Janice was on the show, older than the rest of thecharacters, and Statler and Waldorf LOVED the kids, so something is going on there!

I think the Electric Mayhem band members are supposed to be 20-40 somethings in age, right? I never saw the ep with Janice on there, but was she the same age as the others or older?

[Drtooth]

I am not so sure. One of the Members told me about it, and apparently, she was a little older. She pretended she could read, and threw in little things like rock concerts.. that's all I can remember at the moment.

[Fireimps87]

I remember seeing Dr.Teeth on there. He wasnt in cartoon form, but a clip from the Muppet Show making it seem like he was talking to one of the Muppet Babies.