PAL Muppet Season One - Also cut

[gooball]

Hey guys.

I didn't see this posted already... apologies if I missed it. I live in Australia and the Muppet Show season one was finally released here yesterday. I picked up my copy today, and unfortunately it seems to be cut in all the same places as the U.S. set.

I haven't gone through and checked everything, but all the cuts from the R1 release that I've checked are also cut here.

The disc is coded for regions two and four... so chances are the R2 will be identical. Also, someone recently posted the BBFC runtimes, which were all about 25 minutes. That led some to believe the set was uncut, but unfortunately that's not the case. In fact, some that were listed as 25min at the BBFC (if I recall correctly) are e.g. 22 mnutes on the set.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. It still seems like a great set (good picture quality... not sure if it's from the PAL masters or is an NTSC conversion, though).

p.s. it has the original opening sequence, like the U.S. In fact, everything seems identical.

[Beauregard]

While on the one hand I'm thinking, "Aww, I'm sorry to hear that."

On the other I'm thinking, "Great, now I shan't have to by the R2 as well as the R1 which I already own."

:p

I do hope the next season isn't so hacked up though...

[Muppetsdownunder]

Thats bad news, but I spose we have to be grateful for any muppet releases here in Australia, chopped up or not.

[muppetperson]

Hey guys.

I didn't see this posted already... apologies if I missed it. I live in Australia and the Muppet Show season one was finally released here yesterday. I picked up my copy today, and unfortunately it seems to be cut in all the same places as the U.S. set.

I haven't gone through and checked everything, but all the cuts from the R1 release that I've checked are also cut here.

The disc is coded for regions two and four... so chances are the R2 will be identical. Also, someone recently posted the BBFC runtimes, which were all about 25 minutes. That led some to believe the set was uncut, but unfortunately that's not the case. In fact, some that were listed as 25min at the BBFC (if I recall correctly) are e.g. 22 mnutes on the set.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. It still seems like a great set (good picture quality... not sure if it's from the PAL masters or is an NTSC conversion, though).

p.s. it has the original opening sequence, like the U.S. In fact, everything seems identical.
The cover is different, though.No Kermit collar.Features a picture of Kermit out front,with Miss Piggy and Fozzie in background.I wonder if the UK cover is different again?

[Muppetsdownunder]

The cover isnt furry either like some of the US releases were. But that doesnt matter. Has anyone bought any of the other Australian releases? It would be great news if these are uncut.

[MuppetDanny]

If the Australian release has the same cuts as the Region 1 DVD then it seems more likely the UK and the German prints will be cut too. :(

[anathema]

If the Australian release has the same cuts as the Region 1 DVD then it seems more likely the UK and the German prints will be cut too. :(
There is no reason why they should be. Music rights will have to be negotiated for each country the discs are to be released in. The BBFC runtimes will be correct - it would be illegal for them to be anything else - so cuts made for (eg) Australia have no bearing on the UK release.

[MuppetDanny]

There is no reason why they should be. Music rights will have to be negotiated for each country the discs are to be released in. The BBFC runtimes will be correct - it would be illegal for them to be anything else - so cuts made for (eg) Australia have no bearing on the UK release. Time will tell, 3 days to go from now for the UK release!

[Kermieuk]

Looking forward to getting this on Monday. Getting concerned as some reviews and Ebay auctions for the UK sets claim it has 22 episodes??
I hope this isnt true.??

Muppet Xmas Carol be nice to get too. And two weeks before the USA release?!!? I'll be sure to post a thread about it on here!

Chris

[anathema]

Looking forward to getting this on Monday. Getting concerned as some reviews and Ebay auctions for the UK sets claim it has 22 episodes??
I hope this isnt true.??

I think that's based on some inaccuarate information on Play.co.uk's website - for some reason they only list 22 shows.

Muppet Xmas Carol be nice to get too. And two weeks before the USA release?!!? I'll be sure to post a thread about it on here!

Chris
I'm not too sure about this one. A couple of online retailers are listing it as having an 85 minute running time, which is good as that's correct for the extended version of the film. However, noone's giving any information about whether it's widescreen or not - and there is no evidence that the film has been through the BBFC since 2002. In order to release a widescreen version of the film in the UK, Disney are legally obliged to have it classified, and since it's never been available in widescreen over here before, I would have expected to see it up on the BBFC website by now. Hopefully this is just a case of the BBFC not having updated their site recently :-)

[Kermieuk]

Thanks for the info. All will be revealed on Monday. I already have the R1 Muppet Show set, and the earlier UK Xmas Carol release. Why did they cut the Love is Gone song? Although there are not actually any Muppets in it though!! Maybe its back in the NEW edition?


Chris

[anathema]

Thanks for the info. All will be revealed on Monday. I already have the R1 Muppet Show set, and the earlier UK Xmas Carol release. Why did they cut the Love is Gone song? Although there are not actually any Muppets in it though!! Maybe its back in the NEW edition?


Chris
Technically, they didn't: it was never part of the original movie. It was added back in for some of the first home video releases back in 1993 (US and UK both got it; Germany did not, for example). Exactly why Disney used the extended cut for the US DVD release three years ago and the theatrical print for everyone else remains a mystery. Personally I put it down to Disney's general incompetence.

[MuppetDanny]

According to someone on ebay selling a copy of "MCC" (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Disney-Muppet-Christmas-Carol-50th-Ann-Ed-DVD-Sealed_W0QQitemZ6451686212QQcategoryZ60871QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem), the DVD is in widescreen and the running time is 86 mins

[anathema]

According to someone on ebay selling a copy of "MCC" (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Disney-Muppet-Christmas-Carol-50th-Ann-Ed-DVD-Sealed_W0QQitemZ6451686212QQcategoryZ60871QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem), the DVD is in widescreen and the running time is 86 mins
That's promising :-) Although it does raise the obvious question: if they're able to release a widescreen DVD of the extended cut in the UK - as this auction listing implies is the case - then why can't they do so in the US?

Looks like the UK artwork has changed, too: this disc has the same cover as the US release, but all the UK retailers who actually have artwork up for Monday's release are showing a totally different design.

[MuppetDanny]

It's definately widescreen, if you look closely on the spine of the DVD (on the second picture) it has the widscreen logo and it has that on most of the recent Disney/BVHE DVDs

[anathema]

Ok, confirmed: the UK TMS set has the same cuts as the US.

[MuppetDanny]

Ok, confirmed: the UK TMS set has the same cuts as the US.I knew it :( . So it's even more likely the German version will be cut. So what's the quality like? Is it a PAL to NTSC to PAL conversion? and does it have original opening titles?

[MuppetDanny]

BTW anathema, what's the packing like? :)

[anathema]

The packaging is what you can see on the eBay listings - just a slipcase with four slim DVD cases inside it.

The shows do have their original openings, and it would appear that they're original PAL copies, although I haven't looked closely enough to be certain. I shall put a disc in the player later and report back :-)

It's actually a little suspicious that the UK, US and Australian releases all have the exact same cuts. It could easily be a coincidence that the music rights were unavailable (or expensive) for all three countries. But there's always the nagging possibility that Disney simply took the edited masters prepared for the US release as their starting point rather than trying to clear everything.

I have to admit, I'd be very very surprised if the UK release in particular had the exact same rights issues as the US. In general, music clearances seem to be less of a problem over here - Muppet Family Christmas, for example, and the Quantum Leap boxsets. These have been hacked to pieces for their US releases thanks to music rights, and yet they're uncut in the UK.

[MuppetDanny]

Thanks anathema for the info, please do report back about the quality, I'm quite tempted to buy the R1 DVD set (just for the packaging) :confused:

[anathema]

I've now had a closer look at the first couple of shows :-)

For those of you who don't know me, I'm a video engineer, so I've been able to throw the picture up on a professional-grade video monitor and engineering scopes and make a proper examination of it.

First up: yes, these are original PAL recordings, the format the show was taped in :-) As such, I would recommend fans in PAL countries to go for this set (or your local equivalent :-) over an NTSC release since the picture quality will be higher as it hasn't had to be converted from PAL to NTSC. The flip side of this is that of course 'Sex & Violence' on this set is an NTSC->PAL conversion, so the US release will offer a better picture for that programme.

Anyway :-) The picture is good - certainly better than the Columbia/HMV DVDs that were released in the UK a couple of years ago. It appears to have undergone some noise-reduction, which is a good thing, and possibly some edge-enhancement, which is not. However, this latter is fairly minimal and won't detract from the viewing experience :-)

Picture levels are accurate: blacks are black and whites are white, and the colour looks good. There is some dropout, so if the shows were restored prior to release, some things were missed (this is not a criticism: from long experience I am all too well aware of how difficult it is to catch every single tiny glitch...) Again, unless you're actually looking for it, you probably won't even notice them, and most of the ones I spotted are in fact in an area of the picture that won't be visible on the average TV screen anyway.

Running times for the shows are as follows:

Juliet Prowse 25'36"
Connie Stevens 25'38"
Joel Grey 24'35"
Ruth Buzzi 25'28"
Rita Moreno 25'43"
Jim Nabors 21'11"
Florence Henderson 25'33"
Paul Williams 23'21"
Charles Aznavour 22'26"
Harvey Korman 25'39"
Lena Horne 25'38"
Peter Ustinov 25'39"
Bruce Forsyth 25'37"
Sandy Duncan 25'39"
Candice Bergen 25'37"
Avery Schreiber 25'39"
Ben Vereen 25'36"
Phyllis Diller 25'31"
Vincent Price 22'49"
Valerie Harper 25'33"
Twiggy 25'39"
Ethel Merman 25'38"
Kaye Ballard 25'40"
Mummenschanz 25'39"


The shows are split between the discs as follows: Disc 1 contains shows 1-6; disc 2 contains shows 7-13; disc 3 contains shows 14-19; disc 4 contains shows 20-24 and the extras.

[Kermieuk]

Hi Anathema.

What are the menu screens like? Are they the same colored blocks just like the US release? Where did you manage to get your box set from before the official release on Monday?? I am so glad it has all 24 epsiodes, although I have R1 of this set I will also be buying this set on Monday. Are there any adverts, paper inserts about new product/DVD releases in UK on the Set?

Has anyone done any research about what stores are offering? Is there any exclusive offers with any stores, I have not seen any. Then again I have not seen ANY advertising anywhere for Muppet Show or Xmas Carol. By searching various sites I have so far seen that HMV is offering the best price on S1 Set. I have not yet seen anything listed about the set on the Disney Store UK site? Do they have a special offer at all?

I'll probably drive the 40 miles from Wellington to Bristol on Monday night to the Mall to buy the DVD's and see if Disney store has an offer on, if not at least I can get it at HMV cheaper. Got to pick up Madonna's new album too, although Im more a Kylie fan!! lol But her DVD is out the Monday after. What an expensive time it is running up to Xmas!!

Chris

[anathema]

Many online retailers ship ahead of the official release date to ensure that their customers receive their discs on that date. Obviously they have no control over exactly when the Royal Mail will make delivery... :-) Play.co.uk shipped my discs on Thursday; they reached me this morning.

It appears that the discs are effectively PAL clones of the US release. I have not seen the US discs myself, but from other peoples' descriptions on this board, I would say that the UK set is identical in all respects apart from video format.

There are two flyers packed in the set: one advertising other DVD releases, including the four forthcoming Muppet movies. This information is obviously a bit out of date, as it lists them all as being due out on Monday, whereas all bar Christmas Carol have now been postponed to next year. The other flyer is advertising Muppet ringtones for your phone.

On the subject of advertising, there is at least one radio ad for this set, which I heard on Thursday. It features Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, Gonzo and Mahna Mahna :-)

[MuppetDanny]

Thanks anathema for the info, after you description on the packaging I'm still tempted to buy the R1 DVD set. Are the shows have original ATV endings (credits on the left on the screen than centre credits) on this UK set?

[anathema]

Thanks anathema for the info, after you description on the packaging I'm still tempted to buy the R1 DVD set. Are the shows have original ATV endings (credits on the left on the screen than centre credits) on this UK set?
It's a mixture, the same as the US set.

[gooball]

Sorry guys, looks like the runtimes are the same as those on the BBFC (but the speculation, based on the runtimes on the BBFC, that the set was uncut is obviously incorrect).

I couldn't find the listing and was just going by memory with my original post (last time I do that :p). I had thought that on the BBFC all were 25 minutes, and then when I loaded the Vincent Price one and saw the 22 minutes runtime, I thought the BBFCs times were wrong. But now it turns out Vincent Price was actually 22 minutes on the site. Sorry for the misinformation, and thanks for correcting it anathema.

P.S. The Australian packaging is pretty crappy. It's in a fairly unattractive four-dvd case (rather than four thinkpaks w/extra artwork), and we have the huge ratings logo tarnishing the cover. The region 2 artwork seems much nicer, but the region 4 just worked out much cheaper (and more convenient) for me.

[anathema]

Sorry guys, looks like the runtimes are the same as those on the BBFC (but the speculation, based on the runtimes on the BBFC, that the set was uncut is obviously incorrect).

I couldn't find the listing and was just going by memory with my original post (last time I do that :p). I had thought that on the BBFC all were 25 minutes, and then when I loaded the Vincent Price one and saw the 22 minutes runtime, I thought the BBFCs times were wrong. But now it turns out Vincent Price was actually 22 minutes on the site. Sorry for the misinformation, and thanks for correcting it anathema.
No, you were correct the first time ;-) I've just looked at the BBFC listings. The times they give do not match the times on the discs - all the BBFC listings are around the 25 minute mark. Vincent Price, for example, is listed as running to 24'59".

Presumably Disney resubmitted the shows at some point, and the BBFC site needs updating.

[Kermieuk]

I have used Play.com before. I bought the new Fraggle DVD's they arrived on Saturday before there official Monday rrelease, which is great. I was however a bit concerned with the Muppet Show Box set about the box survivng the Postal trip without getting dented. I suppose I could have ordered MCC from there though.

Chris

[gooball]

No, you were correct the first time ;-) I've just looked at the BBFC listings. The times they give do not match the times on the discs - all the BBFC listings are around the 25 minute mark. Vincent Price, for example, is listed as running to 24'59".

Presumably Disney resubmitted the shows at some point, and the BBFC site needs updating.

Cool, thanks for the re-clarification ;). I got a bit confused when I saw your last post with all the runtimes... For some reason I thought it was a re-post of the bbfc times, rather than a list you compiled). I blame it on the fact that I've been working non-stop the last few days ;).

[anathema]

Cool, thanks for the re-clarification ;). I got a bit confused when I saw your last post with all the runtimes... For some reason I thought it was a re-post of the bbfc times, rather than a list you compiled). I blame it on the fact that I've been working non-stop the last few days ;).
Nah, those times were taken directly from the DVDs :-)

The BBFC times strongly imply what I originally speculated in the other thread: all shows uncut but with replacement opening titles. Since this is clearly not the case, I can only conclude that Disney paid to have the shows classified twice...!