Muppet Haunted Hotel [Archive] - Muppet Central Forum

Luke

08-30-2002, 04:24 PM

I think it was a script purchased by the Henson's many years ago and has been 'in development' ever since along with 'Muppet Time Travel', 'Cheapest Muppet Movie' etc etc. We know the basic concepts behind these ideas but nothing more. They are still listed as possible future projects on licensing releases but that doesn't mean they'll go beyond that stage. None of these movies have been made or are likely to be made while the Henson Company doesn't have a theatrical movie deal.

Rumors were that if 'Muppets From Space' was a success (in box office terms) the following Halloween 'Muppet Haunted House' would have been released along with lots of other 'Muppet Monster' style merchandise and the Playstation game 'Muppet Monster Adventure' which was released at a later date.

The next Muppet movie to look forward to is a 'made for TV' one on NBC this Christmas.

MuppetVison

08-31-2002, 09:08 PM

thanks Luke

The Big Don

08-31-2002, 11:43 PM

'Muppet Time Travel', 'Cheapest Muppet Movie'

Ive never heard of these. Are there scripts or storylines for these or any other movie ideas. Thanks

Janice & Mokey's Man

08-31-2002, 11:58 PM

Hey "The Big Don"---funny, my dad's name is also Don, and he is also BIG---as am I (I'm 6'6", but not mussle-big---a slim worker-outer, if you will).

In "The Kheapest Muppet Movie Ever Made", the idea is that Gonzo is somehow in kharge of the film's budget, but he spends almost all of it on the openin' kredits. So, after those, the movie just goes downhill from there (set-wise), lookin' kheaper and faker eakh step of the way...

(Please forgive my absense of the letter "see"---due to sertain prinsiples, I kannot type it as of now...)

MuppetQuilter

09-01-2002, 10:14 AM

This is standard practice in 'the biz.' Scripts are purchased and may or may not be made. Stuff can be 'in development' for decades. Sometimes they move forward and become actual movies, most of the time they don't. Basically, it means Henson has paid for the right to consider making the movie. If one of these movies is made, it is quite likely the shooting script would change dramatically from the script Henson originally purchased. That kind of thing is standard practice in development.

Luke's right, we haven't seen the scripts and we don't know much about these potential movies. I think it is too early to judge. I'll wait and see if anything comes of them.

beaker

09-03-2002, 12:54 PM

>>>Rumors were that if 'Muppets From Space' was a success (in box office terms) the following Halloween 'Muppet Haunted House' would have been released along with lots of other 'Muppet Monster' style merchandise and the Playstation game 'Muppet Monster Adventure' which was released at a later date<<<

Hmmm, perhaps there was a silver lining to MFS box office demise!

>>>How the heck do you know it's a horrible script ? I take it you haven't seen it, and i don't think a full plot summary was ever released, just a few basic rumors<<<

does it take a freaking Henson historian to tell ya a cruddy Muppet film version of Scary Movie would be the biggest piece of poop since the days of the Disney Muppet video Bean Bunny specials? Gosh, this to me sound slike itd make KSY look like
The Muppet Movie.

Luke

09-03-2002, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by beaker
does it take a freaking Henson historian to tell ya a cruddy Muppet film version of Scary Movie would be the biggest piece of poop since the days of the Disney Muppet video Bean Bunny specials? Gosh, this to me sound slike itd make KSY look like
The Muppet Movie.

Who says they were doing a Muppet film version of Scary Movie ? I think that although as you say, it has the potential to be a bit of a 'Muppets From Space' style film, with good writing this kind of thing could work. Eitherway, the current one being touted around to licensee's is 'Time Travel' and i'd consider that on the same level.

beaker

09-03-2002, 05:07 PM

>>>Eitherway, the current one being touted around to licensee's is 'Time Travel' and i'd consider that on the same level<<<

Yikes. As noted I have the same thoughts about this as I do on the other horrific abomination script ideas. Why is it I and others on here have VASTLY more edgier and epic scritpt ideas than paid Henson writers???

Why cant they have a lightbulb that goes off in their collective PR head that goes "Hey, why not have a Muppet movie that will represent the new Muppets...not the conry crud themed Muppet films of the 90's?" Im talking real locations, original sung by the Muppets songs, heart, and just some really great ideas.
What a concept.

ChellisPal

09-05-2002, 10:07 AM

What we all have to remember is that along with great characters, the Muppets have always been good at doing fun paradoys of things that are popular. Could the Muppets pull off a funny horror spoof, I bet. I'd still like to see a space adv with them too, or how about a teen comedy , the Muppets are great in that they can play any kind of characters and be funny.We should all just be thankful that they are still entertaining us.

beaker

09-05-2002, 12:26 PM

>>>We should all just be thankful that they are still entertaining us<<<

Not to sound 'un' grateful or taking things for granted...but regardless of emtv or any financial situation....the Muppets will always be around...always. They to me are first and last and always. The past present and future. Should we just be grateful and except anything JHC sends out way? No way! We wouldnt be real fans if we just blindly accepted this KSY or some poor written spoof Muppet film garbage. I realize there is some on here who would just blindlya ccept and grin at any film or special project Muppet wise JHC sends our way...not me. The Muppets are better than being stuck in some horrible send off or genre piece. They need something epic next up, something edgy, something to eclipse even the great MTM.

I and a lot of others cannot settle for anymore wattered down Muppet trite.

Wozza Fraggle

09-05-2002, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by beaker

We wouldnt be real fans if we just blindly accepted this KSY or some poor written spoof Muppet film garbage.

You havent seen it yet so dont diss it, Many people like it.

See ya

Luke

09-05-2002, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by beaker
but regardless of emtv or any financial situation....the Muppets will always be around...always.

I'm sorry Cory but that is just absolute bull - the Muppets might not be around even in a few years time BECAUSE of the EMTV/financial situation. They could get sold onto a company that might retire them after a bad project or they could be sold to a company who just wants the video library and doesn't care about the characters, or EMTV could go into liquidation - JHC could get split up and the Muppet puppets could be sold to someone who just wants to put them in a museam - all VERY possible things if the business side went belly up - of course we hope it won't happen, but don't be so sure of yourself, there's absolutely nothing you or the fans could do in this situation.

As for dissing KSY this vocally without even seeing it - if Steve and Bill walk upto you at Muppetfest, put a friendly hand on your shoulder and invite you for a once in a lifetime exclusive tour of their dressing room to meet Pepe and Kermit i wouldn't go if i was you, things might turn nasty.

radionate

09-05-2002, 01:05 PM

Warrick beat to the punch on this one. I haven't liked any of the direct to video Muppet Stuff I've seen (Muppet Classic Theater, Muppet Babies stuff, The educational videos), so I was aprehensive about KSY too.

Then I bought it and sat down last night and checked it out. It really was cute. The chemistry between the little felt frogs (and one toad) was great. The whole thing was charming.

I think you have your head in a dark orifice if you aren't willing to even check out the special. You can't critize something if you don't know anything about it. Period.

Like momma always says, "How do you know you don't like peas until you try them?"

beaker

09-05-2002, 05:44 PM

This is the part where I take off the kid gloves...

>>>I'm sorry Cory but that is just absolute bull - the Muppets might not be around even in a few years time BECAUSE of the EMTV/financial situation.<<<

You must not be a real fan then. Were not talking about the end of a show or series...Im talking about the 'Muppets'...began in 1955 and will go on forever. Say its 'bull' to the muppeteers, to the fans, etc. You might have some knowlege of the em.tv business and all, but you have become so f'n cynical it's sickening...yes you said the Palisades figures might not last past wave three...thats fine. But to say 'its bull' to my saying 'The Muppets will be around for some time to come'...the heck?

>>>all VERY possible things if the business side went belly up - of course we hope it won't happen, but don't be so sure of yourself, there's absolutely nothing you or the fans could do in this situation.<<<

Wow...have you become so jaded, so far from your initial love of the thing your on every day to post about, that you see things that way? It's like the people who said the Muppets died with JH...totally false, and even if someday Sesame gets cancelled, the Muppets will be around forever. I hope ya dont see The Muppets as some ALF or Snoopy nostalgic trip.

>>>As for dissing KSY this vocally without even seeing it - if Steve and Bill walk upto you at Muppetfest, put a friendly hand on your shoulder and invite you for a once in a lifetime exclusive tour of their dressing room to meet Pepe and Kermit i wouldn't go if i was you, things might turn nasty.<<<

How dare you man! Since the time I was little what you just said has been an absolute dream of mine. How dare you belittle something so extremely joyous and unthinkably cool into some kind of personal attack. I dont even know what to say with that last comment. If you said that to anyone else on here they'd be peeved as well.

I did get to meet Bill, and had a special oppurtunity to have it signed 'from pepe'...So no, while I have only gotten to meet up close and in person Sweetums, meeting the Muppets would be one of my life's biggest dreams come true.

Luke

09-05-2002, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by beaker
This is the part where I take off the kid gloves...

Gee .... i'm so scared ! *Bites fingernails*

Originally posted by beaker
You must not be a real fan then. Were not talking about the end of a show or series...Im talking about the 'Muppets'...began in 1955 and will go on forever. Say its 'bull' to the muppeteers, to the fans, etc.

I am talking about the Muppets that belong (officially) to EMTV, a company in dire financial trouble. I'm sure the Muppets will go on forever in people's hearts, minds and through video etc, and any chance of bad stuff happening is very minimal, but to say there will always be new Muppet stuff or actual puppets out there on TV is unfortunately no longer a 'given'. I'm not being cynical about it, i'm being realistic - i'm sure you've read the news releases as i have. To say they are 'safe' is just not true - it's sad, but it's life. You mention the Muppeteers - do you not think they are worrying about their jobs and future careers right now ?

As for the rest, i won't even bother. You are just acting like such a total d*ckhead lately and your attitude is so bad that it's no longer worth getting into these things with you. If you want to question who is a 'fan' and who is not then i'd take a look in the mirror and at your actions around the forum over the last month or so !

danielromens

09-06-2002, 11:05 AM

Luke, I have to agree with you buddy, a d*ckhead indeed. It would seem to this poster that beaker has lost all sense of what makes this forum a forum, namely the right to one's own opinion. Beaker, first of all I'd say you need to sit down and take a breath, use that time to learn some tact, and then go back and read the responces for your posts. Heck, go back and read your posts, I think you'll see that your behavior is rediculous. You've stated your opinions and luke and the others are stating there's. No need to get your Kermit panties in such a tight wad my friend.

Luke is absolutely right, and down right realistic when it comes to the current state of the union. the muppets, though loved by all of us, are in the plainest sence, a commodity. They are a group of copyrighted characters, no longer owned by someone who is out for their best interest, but the interest of their struggling bankrupted company. As for the sentimental, beaker, you are correct they will continue to live as a television and film phenom, a fact that Luke agreed with, further cementing the observation that you have seeming gone off the perverbial deep end. Let's face it though, the sections of the Henson company could very well be split and shelled out to whoever may bid on them, a case which would be tragic and truly the end of an era.

FellowWLover

09-06-2002, 12:26 PM

Yeah! And don't be draggin' Snoopy into this either!

beaker

09-06-2002, 12:29 PM

>>>As for the rest, i won't even bother. You are just acting like such a total d*ckhead lately and your attitude is so bad that it's no longer worth getting into these things with you. If you want to question who is a 'fan' and who is not then i'd take a look in the mirror and at your actions around the forum over the last month or so !<<<

First off, it's Cory...I know ya might spell things with an extra e, but if youre gonna attack somebody at least get their name right!

It pains me to see this, but whereas you yourself used to be objective and nice in your own Lukester way. You have had nothing but the most bleakest and cynical things to say lately.
You seem to thrive on giving away possible hush hush stuff you shouldnt, then somehow manage to say Palisades line won't last past a couple waves, and that the Muppets are teteering on the brink of destruction. You attack me for me stating the same apprehension about KSY, yet you yourself first badmouthed the Hoobs show, then jumped on board, and even bashed Bear in Big Blue House...not to mention dooming the upcoming Fox show.

You call me a D-head? You no longer seem to be the cool collective comrade you once were. It is clear youre only hear to be a scenester and a rabble rouser.

>>>Luke, I have to agree with you buddy, a d*ckhead indeed. It would seem to this poster that beaker has lost all sense of what makes this forum a forum, namely the right to one's own opinion.<<<

Daniel, don't get me started. Ive never had a problem with you, but now youre attacking me. Believe me, youve stated some some on this and other forums that have been less than well receptive. People use the expression the pot calling the kettle black...well, as it stands MC is rampant with sickening hypocrisy...
quite a few have lost the idea of why your'e all on here.

Luke

09-06-2002, 12:56 PM

Cory,

First off apologies for the mispelling of your name - i do usually spell it without the 'e' but i noticed that lots of other people were spelling it with the 'e' and thought i had it wrong. It would be useful to have it in your sig maybe seeing as it can be spelled two ways.

Secondly i'm not getting into arguing with you - if all this stuff is really what you think then thats absolutely fine and your opinion. It's probably right to say i'm not the most enthusiastic person at times but then i tell it like it is, and when things are (in my opinion) good, i say so. It's too early to say anything about the Fox show - all i said was what i thought it would turn out like, and far from dooming it, i actually like the sound of that.

It was wrong to call you what i did so sorry about that, but your words over the last couple of days (as i think multiple others have pointed out in multiple other threads) have been very strong and to the point where they start to get personal and annoy people. It's been fairly out of character for you, and you seem yourself to have changed your mind about a few things so i hope we can all get along whether we agree or disagree.

I guess we all have our bad days !

beaker

09-06-2002, 02:10 PM

>>>Secondly i'm not getting into arguing with you - if all this stuff is really what you think then thats absolutely fine and your opinion. It's probably right to say i'm not the most enthusiastic person at times but then i tell it like it is, and when things are (in my opinion) good, i say so. It's too early to say anything about the Fox show - all i said was what i thought it would turn out like, and far from dooming it, i actually like the sound of that.<<<

Sorry to see some people not in on it all get scathed...I guess it was more a commentary on how fed up we were with people bad mouthing KSY, having seen it or not.

Yes, you are one for telling it like it is! To be honest, some of your pessimistic views on Palisades line and the Fox show are far from mine, but that is why we have a forum!

I guess it is time to turn our swords into plow penguin throwing!

radionate

09-06-2002, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by beaker
I guess it was more a commentary on how fed up we were with people bad mouthing KSY, having seen it or not. Cory, have you ever thought about going into politics? You seem to have waffling down to an artform.

beaker

09-06-2002, 02:46 PM

>>>Cory, have you ever thought about going into politics? You seem to have waffling down to an artform<<<

Well, the ever evolving paradigm and shifty spin doctoring seems right up my alley right? Heh...The archetecural backbone of what makes a great forum or mouth piece online is the ability to 'evolve' one's thoughts. Cynicism has become so nested into our collective minds, no matter how much of the idea of 'Muppetdom' we hold dear. It's up to the individual to pick themselves out of that jaded cynical fog.

And did you say Waffles? I'll take two! To people reading this wondering what the heck is going on...this Nate guy, Ive only chatted with him a few times online, but this is a cool guy in my book. If anybody wants to have a good conversation about music, IM Nate up.

And did you say Waffles? I'll take two!

radionate

09-06-2002, 02:51 PM

No doubt about it anymore, Cory is on drugs.

beaker

09-06-2002, 03:05 PM

>>>No doubt about it anymore, Cory is on drugs<<<

Because I actually enjoyed KSY dvd? Like I said, I did have a problem with some of the human acting, but its not the human actor's fault. I liked a good portion of the KSY movie itself(how could ya not love croaker???) but it was the extras that really made it shine.

Hehe, and for the record I have never ever used drugs or smoked, nor will I ever. I guess it stems from being a kid of the late 80's!

Luke

09-06-2002, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by beaker
Yes, you are one for telling it like it is! To be honest, some of your pessimistic views on Palisades line and the Fox show are far from mine, but that is why we have a forum!

Maybe i see your views as pessimistic too Cory - certainly your stance on KSY up until today was extremely pessimistic. As for the Palisades line, i like it a lot now - but yes, i needed some convincing on some aspects and a lot of what has gone on is unlike stuff we've been through before. As for the Fox show i have no idea what you are talking about - i questioned how Fox would handle it when we were discussing how 'Greg' was handled by them way back, and i said that in my opinion i didn't think they would go for an all out edgy style, but more of a mix between new and old. I wasn't dissing it, and i don't feel thats a pessemistic view - i'd actually enjoy that and think it's the right approach.

Please try to get your facts right before even beginning to imagine you are 'crossing swords' with me - basically i take it all in fun - you are entitled to your opinion and i've got mine. It's not a personal thing for me.

radionate

09-06-2002, 03:11 PM

No Cory, I don't mean that you are on drugs to enjoy KSY. I mean you are just cracked out period. With this whole "it was a farce" routine.

beaker

09-06-2002, 03:15 PM

Pessimism is a rocky road. It's a defense mechanism to be cautious...remember Muppetfest last year? I said no way in heck it would be cancelled, and you said there was a chance...and boom some billionare in the middle east cancelled everything.

>>>>Please try to get your facts right before even beginning to imagine you are 'crossing swords' with me - basically i take it all in fun - you are entitled to your opinion and i've got mine. It's not a personal thing for me.<<<<

Indeed, unfortunately I think a lot of people for get to take things all in fun. That's what were all here for, to discuss and have fun and inspire!

Zack the Dog

09-06-2002, 10:58 PM

I'm sorry Cory but that is just absolute bull - the Muppets might not be around even in a few years time BECAUSE of the EMTV/financial situation. They could get sold onto a company that might retire them after a bad project or they could be sold to a company who just wants the video library and doesn't care about the characters, or EMTV could go into liquidation - JHC could get split up and the Muppet puppets could be sold to someone who just wants to put them in a museam - all VERY possible things if the business side went belly up - of course we hope it won't happen, but don't be so sure of yourself, there's absolutely nothing you or the fans could do in this situation.

Hi Luke,

could this really happen? i mean the Muppets just disapearing like that, just think Kermit the Frog never seening the light of day again! i mean it would be just like if Bugs Bunny,Mickey Mouse or scooby doo were to just vanhising. there wouldn't be anyway possabile to keep the characters going? steve, dave, bill, Eric, jerry and everyone out there their jobs?

if that were to happen, I don't think it ever would, but i'm not saying i don't belive that could happen, i just don't know much on that subject. i would hope Kermit would be then a reg on Sesame Street maybe even a few other classic muppet characters. Animal screem the ABC'S, Fozzie joke of the day, cooking heathly food with the swedish chef hosted by Rizzo the rat, Miss Piggy's Travle Trips, and Bean Bunny's World....wait a second?

Zack)Rowlf the,The Muppets Move to Sesame Street, a new movie idea!!!but there already are Muppets on sesame street....well has the word "muppet" ever been said on Sesame street?Dog.

Luke

09-07-2002, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by Zack the Dog
could this really happen

Hey Zack,

Yes, technically it could happen - but it's just one of about ten possible scenarios and one of the least likely. It could only really happen if something happened to EMTV before they had a chance to sell the Henson Company, they sold to somebody who didn't want to use the Muppets but wanted the Henson tape library, or if something happens much further down the line with the new owners that they decide to bench the characters. Thankfully there would be quite a lot of interest in JHC if it was available at a bargain basement price so all this should be prevented, even in an extreme situation but the point was that yes, it could possibly happen - so someone saying the Muppets are 'safe' from these kind of scenarios is just very misinformed.

When the company was sold to EMTV, the Henson's lost most of their control over what can happen to the Muppets in the future - they are no longer in the hands of someone who might be concerned about how the characters are used by any new owner, they are being sold by a bank who just needs to get the most amount of money possible by any means neccasary. If you were a billionaire and wanted to buy the Muppets and keep them in your attic performing shows for you and only you then you could, and there's nothing anyone else could do about it.

There are a couple of other similar properties in the UK (also traditional nostalgic childrens favorites) that have actually gone this way, and also others that have been bought by inexperienced companies who have totally misued them and ruined what the characters once had.

Zack the Dog

09-07-2002, 10:48 AM

Thanks Luke, that's pretty interesting, I would conster that worse case senrio,well, because it is.

If you were a billionaire and wanted to buy the Muppets and keep them in your attic performing shows for you and only you then you could, and there's nothing anyone else could do about it.

Oh, Luke, you didn't know??? I AM a billionaire! Thanks for that great idea! The Muppet are safe now in my extreamly large attic with full theather! Anyone want to come over to my house?!?! My mom baked muffins!!:D

Maybe I don't have a Dr. Teeth repaint, but I have Dr. Teeth himself! Oh wait! i'm a billionaire, I now have 12 dr teeth repaints!;-)

Zack)Rowlf the, Oh, I just feed the cat, do I have to feed the puppetieer's too Ma?Dog.

beaker

09-07-2002, 08:24 PM

>>>they are being sold by a bank who just needs to get the most amount of money possible by any means neccasary. If you were a billionaire and wanted to buy the Muppets and keep them in your attic performing shows for you and only you then you could, and there's nothing anyone else could do about it.<<<

There are people in the government who do virtual millitary strategy and worst case scenarios with computers. So in that sense, anything is possible if you wanna get out there. But to the above statement, I could write a 4000k email detailing a thousand reasons why this is absolutely implausible.
That said, realisticly coming up is a very crucial time in Muppetdom.

As the sale looms, it is not totally implausible to wake up, log onto MC, and read Variety reports financial disaster hits em.tv with a foreign bank holding all assets. This sort of thing happens(you referenced WWE in another thread...an din that case what I just described happened to ECW until WWE bought that out) So this becomes a question of the Muppets being at the mercy of a bank or company. I remember when it was reported on MC way back when about em.tv buying JHC. Boy was I mad, and even more mad when they sold all the Sesame rights solely to Sesame Workshop. Ugh. One need point to Formula One to see how em.tv handles things, and indeed press statements from em.tv had this big spiel about the possibilities they have with the Muppets.

The strange thing is I would guess only people in media business, puppeteers, JHC employyes, and the online Muppet community even know a company called EM.TV owns the Muppets. EM.TV is never shown on any fine print or logo on Muppet products, and that's good. Disney on the other hand if they bought it...

But to the basic fundamental question of the possibility of one day Muppetdom as we know ending, I say no. You can draw out all kinds of scenarios or 'what ifs'...but the basic fact is even though some uninformed people out there think the 'Muppets' are just some trend or nostalgic trip ala Garfield, Punky Brewster or HR Puffinstuff, they would be greatly mistaken. From kids in Washington DC going to malt shops circa 1950's to troops stationed in Vietnam circa 1970 given some comic relief from Muppet guest appearences on Ed Sullivan...to virtually every kid haven grown up on Sesame Street for 30 years plus...and to a lesser extent TMS, Muppet Babies, and FR...the Muppets have been delighting people for half a decade, and will be forever as time as we know it.

Drtooth

09-11-2002, 11:04 AM

Muppets Cheapest Movie? It sounds so much like a Monty Python idea!

Drtooth

09-11-2002, 11:34 AM

Also, I agree with Beaker's anger over EMTV returning the Sesame Characters to CTW. No we'll have no more "Connie Stevens type Muppet Show episodes with Sesame characters singing Musical numbers," No more "MFC crossover with ANimal and Cookie, or Oscar and Rizzo" (too bad! They'd make a great team!)

EMTV did make a few bad discisions, but at least they didn't fade.

Though, I'd have preferred if Henson found some sort of financial independence!

Luke

09-11-2002, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by beaker
But to the above statement, I could write a 4000k email detailing a thousand reasons why this is absolutely implausible.

Cory, if it's not too much trouble, could you let me know some of these reasons and back them up (in the business, not fan sense) with some facts. The scenario i mentioned is totally possible, and could definitely happen if other things went badly. Yes, the Muppets are big icons and part of history, and will forever remain within us, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the business side which is what we are talking about here - on paper they are a media property like any other and the stuff that could happen in the event of sale/bankruptcy is the same as what can and has happened to other media properties - this is what matters to a bank. The Muppets have absolutely no more protection than say 'The Transformers' do !

It's all about money, that's it. If you have the cash, you could buy them and do what you liked. You seriously think that Allen & Co would say no to ANYONE who offered a high price for the company ? Thats just not how it works i'm afraid buddy. All we have to hope from a fan point of view is that the Muppets are bought by someone respectful of the brand, who will actually use them well, and someone who will have the resources to let the Henson Company do what they want to do in the future. That's not a 'given' though and we have no 'right' to say this must happen - for all we know another 'EMTV' style company could come along, or even the Henson kids, afraid of what will be done with the Muppets if they get into the wrong hands could buy them, retire them and stick them in some Henson museum because they are upset with the way the EMTV sale went and want to keep their dads characters secure.

All this is not what i think should happen to them, or what i want to happen to them but my point is that they have no actual protection against this from happening, and that we should be aware of the risk. Just turning a blind eye or kidding yourself could provide an awful suprise one day !

beaker

09-11-2002, 08:11 PM

>>>All this is not what i think should happen to them, or what i want to happen to them but my point is that they have no actual protection against this from happening, and that we should be aware of the risk. Just turning a blind eye or kidding yourself could provide an awful suprise one day !<<<

I know it's your job to be mr. cynical on here, that's fine. But instead of a massive email reasons of why this is implasuible...I direct you to Variety magazine December 1995, a 40 years of the Muppets celebration. Every other page is filled with a huge ad from virtually ever kind of company thanking the JHC for so many years of goodness. At the live show, I saw jaded business man losing them selves in the awe and splendor of bearing witness to a live Muppet show. I offer the explanation to every parent out there raised on Sesame Street and TMS and FR, and explain that to them and their kid 'Well, we bought the Muppets and retired them'. It goes on and on, but I believe with all valour, honour, love, and reality that the Muppets are set to such a degree...that beyond the government cutting funding to PBS or emtv shockingly heading under one day...the Muppets are here to stay, no matter what kind of 'doomsday' scenario you can draw up.

You as a fan I would hope would take up proverbial arms over such an auspicious scenario.

>>>Also, I agree with Beaker's anger over EMTV returning the Sesame Characters to CTW. No we'll have no more "Connie Stevens type Muppet Show episodes with Sesame characters singing Musical numbers," No more "MFC crossover with ANimal and Cookie, or Oscar and Rizzo" (too bad! They'd make a great team!)<<<

word. Or I could point to MFC as well!

Luke

09-11-2002, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by beaker
offer the explanation to every parent out there raised on Sesame Street and TMS and FR, and explain that to them and their kid 'Well, we bought the Muppets and retired them'. It goes on and on

Ok so as i'm Mr Cynical on here, i'll debate this with you (note the word debate and not argue). Your explanation seems to be that the Muppets are so great and so established that nobody would dare do something like this because it would just be so bad and affect the entire population. As a fan i can totally accept and applaud that - my problem with it is that it's a warm and fuzzy thing to think but unfortunately the people who own the Muppets now aren't all that warm and fuzzy. Lets turn your own argument around a bit and ask of Brian Henson and the other Henson children "What kind of person are you selling your fathers characters which are pretty much American institutions to a German media company with not the greatest of moral or business backgrounds ?". I think they would probably turn round and say to you that the company was in trouble and that they had to make the best possible buisness decision to ensure the company didn't go down and they'd lose their entire investment. Basically - it's business, and if Henson's own kids saw it that way, i have a feeling someone like EMTV or Allen & Co won't play any nicer.

Nobody is disagreeing that the Muppets haven't achieved great things, or that there isn't future potential in them, and even the people in control of the Muppets right now would agree with you on that. The thing is they are a business, and one in severe trouble at that. To them, it's the figure on the cheque that matters right now - not how the company will be run or who will run it. Believe me, they would have absolutely no problem signing the Muppets away to a company who were going to have them advertise diapers, or just lock the Muppets away and exploit only the tape library. They wouldn't even bother explaining to people why they did it, heck they don't even speak the same language. EMTV didn't buy the Muppets because they were big fans or that they cared about the brand - they were advised it would be a good investment to help them achieve their aims. Do you know the guy that owned Nintendo hardly ever played a video game yet he made billions out of it.

This is business, cold and hard. It's not particularly 'doomsday' situations or the totally implausible. The stuff i'm talking about has happened to other massively popular properties without much thought for the fans. I hope to god this all doesn't happen, and that someone like Disney gets them and actually keeps them alive and keeps using them - but i can't be sure, nobody can. You bet your bippy i'd be shouting if crap like this happened to the Muppets but in my heart, i'd know that our characters are the property of somebody else and it was their right to do what they liked with them - i guess the blame there lies with the people that signed away the Henson Company to EMTV - at that point i think we lost any sense of them ever being 'safe' or really being part of the Henson family again but i guess they had their reasons and we shall see if we get a happy ending out of this.

As for EMTV 'shockingly' going under one day ...... well i've seen EMTV for myself and there's nothing shocking about that. I'd be suprised if they last another six months and this is why we have to hope they will sell Henson quickly and onto someone suitable (Rivkin's backer is yet another German company) - i'm told the sale might go through in November now, after a couple of failed attempts - so my fingers are crossed.

beaker

09-12-2002, 01:37 PM

Hey Luke!

Your response on this matter for some reason seemed very logical...maybe I had misread what you said before, but it did hit home when you said 'em.tv' was a business decision and of conveinence, not a 'oh they would be perfect!'

Remember on TP when I said one of these days as Muppet fans we could log on, and find that the poop has hit the fan in regards to finding out em.tv went under all the sudden?(ie: muppets sold off , etc)

I had been trying to say the same things you have been saying in this thread...oh how blinded with passion for an idea I have become.

I think I got obsessed on this idea of, well 'celebration' rather than an ugly businness truth or possibility...that I was arguing over a point that I not to long ago was uttering.

You of all people like me and everyone on here knows the Muppets arent just some retro fad popping back in for a small time like some other properties. Of course you also know the rough seas of the business world more than quite a few of us.

I apologize for taking things out of tone and spirit last week about various things Luke. Looking back perhaps you signal caution over the years on Mc, not outright doom or pessimism.
Heck, if you recall I was being a ****** saying 'NO! Muppetfest will not be cancelled" and you said theires a realistic possibility. And then MF was postponned. IS this a concession speech? Naw, more of a friendly bow;)

I just really hope disney bails JHC out, as that emtv thing is too unstable at this time...especially when what I believe to be the heralded return is to take place next year.

Luke

09-12-2002, 02:38 PM

Hey Cory,

No apologies needed - i probably do seem very cold and cynical on all this EMTV sale stuff but it's pretty hard not to be when you've seen for yourself how these kind of companies treat things. I think i'd rather be the person seeing this from the total (some would say blind) 'fan' opinion, but at least as informed fans we are aware of what could come and vent our feelings against it. I dunno - i think it's a great shame we have gone past the point where it's all about the shows or characters and just as much about the boardroom. The Muppets definitely don't deserve all this, but in the unlikely event crap happens at least we have seen from Farscape that the people at Henson are honest with the fans and support action. It's probably about two years too late though - Brian's letter to Henson employee's still sticks in my mind promising people's jobs were safe and that EMTV were a family company, dedicated to the brand and excited about new shows and products. It didn't really turn out like that, and i'm sure there are lots of things we don't know about that led to that state of events so it's hard to blame anyone, but whether the Henson kids just took an amount of money they couldn't refuse or they had a ship sinking with debt on their hands that they had to offload, it must have been a massive decision for them to have done what they did.

beaker

09-12-2002, 08:35 PM

>>>No apologies needed - i probably do seem very cold and cynical on all this EMTV sale stuff but it's pretty hard not to be when you've seen for yourself how these kind of companies treat things. <<<

Oh Luke...warm fuzzy hugs is what ya gonna get! Im grateful you and Nate snapped me out of my KSY preconcieved notions...now I happily watch the Joe segments daily;)
And this...I totally understand you know man.

It's like a wrestling mark and an insider. I enjoyed wrestleing better when I was a mark. But in regards to the Muppets, Im not an insider, but even if one were I could see how its hard to always see things from a fan view only.

I think i'd rather be the person seeing this from the total (some would say blind) 'fan' opinion, but at least as informed fans we are aware of what could come and vent our feelings against it. I dunno - i think it's a great shame we have gone past the point where it's all about the shows or characters and just as much about the boardroom. <<<

It is sad...all this uncertainty. My sincerest apologies Luke to any unkind or misguided words said. I know we have gone back and forth, and you always end up having a very concrete and rationale reason behind your words. You are a true pillar of the online Muppet community, and I thank you for fully explaining this sale discussion.

Right now I am so in awe of the new site design...I dont know what more else to say^_^

radionate

09-13-2002, 10:51 AM

Luke has made very valid points, and I'm glad you understand them now Cory. While I agree with him that it is a very unlikely senerio, the truth is that the video library could be a cash cow if the company is sold for the right price.

What I think we need to be prepared for now is the breaking apart of the company, as Luke has talked about in the past. It is not going to surprise me in the least if the Creature Shop is sold to a seperate company. Thats just my gut feeling anymore. Time will tell though.

beaker

09-13-2002, 02:32 PM

>>>It is not going to surprise me in the least if the Creature Shop is sold to a seperate company. Thats just my gut feeling anymore. Time will tell though.
<<<

That move wouldnt surprise me wither...with Creature Shop involved in some of 2001's biggest films, the recent Farscape news, this is a very plausible scenario. The Sesame Street news upset me, but to me Sesame will always be JHC.

Bean Bunny

09-13-2002, 09:05 PM

I wasn't be surpurise if Eisner try to the buy the Muppets to show the Disney executives that he still has the touch. Of cource, in the news right Disney not Pixar is playing hardball with when the deal expires next year after Finding Nemo. You see Disney has signed a deal with a new CGI studio from the producer of Shrek, who will produced the films in America and animated it in England thrus it will cost less to make a film than it take Pixar.

With that said, Disney ever with it's current situation probably could still buy Henson.

kansasteen14

09-13-2002, 09:36 PM

actually bean Disney and Pixar still have 3 movies including finding nemo.and I hope that DIsney bails that muppets out

beaker

09-14-2002, 12:12 PM

My gosh, Im actually agreeing with Kantastseen!
Hmmm...

Yes, after reviewing the current state of JHC and Luke's points, a Disney buyout looms.

Bean Bunny

09-14-2002, 03:17 PM

actually bean Disney and Pixar still have 3 movies including finding nemo.and I hope that DIsney bails that muppets out

I know but in 2003 during Finding Nemo's release, Pixar can start negolating for a new deal with Disney or someone else. After Finding Nemo, Pixar still has The Invicbles and Cars for Disney.

Luke

09-14-2002, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by beaker
Yes, after reviewing the current state of JHC and Luke's points, a Disney buyout looms.

Actually no, it's not looking like Disney. There is definitely something going on sale wise right now and it's been expected to go through for a while. I'm not sure if that means theres a deal on the table or theres gonna be some bidding process - i would think the former. If it was Disney it would have been leaked or we would have at least heard something more.

Bean Bunny

09-15-2002, 08:10 PM

If Disney was in better fincinal shape right now, I am guessing they would have went for the Muppets but who knows the world works in mysteryious ways.

beaker

09-16-2002, 03:27 PM

While there are some rumors going around, for many of us it will come down to coming onto MC one day and finding out the big news in regards to the sale.

As for the Pixar/Disney thing...Im none to excited about this fish movie, as 2003 would have been perfect to launch a Toy Story 3(providing you go by the Toy Story film every 4 years)

radionate

09-16-2002, 03:31 PM

I think Toy Story 3 will never happen. I doubt they could ever find a story worthy enough to tell with those characters again. But I could be wrong. One interesting idea would be to have the gang together when Andy has children of his own, where both Buzz and Woody would be "old outdated" toys. But I doubt any of the magic of the first two films could be repeated.

Luke

09-16-2002, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by beaker
While there are some rumors going around, for many of us it will come down to coming onto MC one day and finding out the big news in regards to the sale.

We'll have to see who actually breaks the news eh ? I guess there's a lot more competition nowdays. Toughpigs seems to do a heavy amount of news breaking lately !

kansasteen14

09-17-2002, 08:45 PM

actually I have heard they have a script for Toy Story 3,and I was also shocked beaker.anyway you are right bean as the company that ade shrek has signed with Disney which P.O.ed me

Drtooth

09-18-2002, 01:08 PM

Well, if the Shrek studio's movies flop, the'll go crawling back to Pixar! Heh hehe heh!!!!

I sure hope they do make Toy Story 3 (I'd really like to see them try to incorperate XR, Mira, and Booster into the plot). I mean, the first one was so good, the second one was better. It was so much better, I can't get that "aaaahhh" feeling that I got when I saw the first one. And it's too bad they can't make a Monsters Inc. 2 now (the possibility, is that Boo is all grown up now, and .. well, if you didn't see it yet, I can't say anymore) Bugs life 2 however, is improbable, and I don't think it would work.

kansasteen14

09-18-2002, 07:18 PM

yeah I would also like to see at least XR as he is like a toy already and Monsters Inc needs a sequel just from that ending

scott

09-27-2002, 06:33 PM

OK, back on the Haunted Hotel subject, I did get the plot info and such, though I am not at liberty to divulge the information. But unlike the early assumption Beaker said, this isn't really anything like scary movie. The plotline was pretty interesting, and it could be very great.

Drtooth

10-02-2002, 01:59 PM

Scott, if you can.. umm.. sneak by a little information..just a little we'd appreaciate it!

Fozzie Bear

10-16-2002, 08:33 AM

I wonder what would happen if Frank Oz was able to take out time to write a screenplay, direct the film, and perform in it?

Traveling Matt

10-16-2002, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Fozzie Bear
I wonder what would happen if Frank Oz was able to take out time to write a screenplay, direct the film, and perform in it?
Hey Fozzie-

In Ken Plume's Frank Oz interview (http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/35842p1.html), Frank mentions that he has an original idea for a new Muppet movie.

He says, "That's why I want to do the next Muppet movie, because I'm excited about a particular idea, and the idea is something that Jim and Jerry Juhl and I thought of 15 years ago."

I'm not sure if "do" means direct, produce, or what (probably direct), but it was also two years ago, so Frank may feel differently now.

- Billy :cool:

Fozzie Bear

10-16-2002, 06:37 PM

I think it was rumored that the film would be "Cheapest Muppet Movie Ever Made."

Sir Didymus

10-16-2002, 08:51 PM

I think "The Cheapest Muppet Movie Ever Made" sounds like a very cool movie! One thing that I didn't like about KSY was that Gonzo and Piggy and Fozzie weren't in it. I mean, I know it's supposed to be Kermit's movie, but It would be so cute to see baby versions of them all. Like in The Muppets Take Manhatten. Oh well........

Sir Didymus

Drtooth

10-18-2002, 01:57 PM

Okay, Scott...Here's the deal...you tell us the plot if the movie isn't made...okay?

danielromens

10-30-2002, 05:00 PM

no serious offence dr tooth, just some playful ribbing, but why am I not surprised that the same guy who thinks a disney buyout is a good idea thinks that a toy story 3 is a good idea. why do movies have to have sequels. unless they're top notch I say let the originals be classics instead of making them stale.

some of the straight to video bs has tainted my love of the original films. I just can't get the "two bad the had to ruin it with (place title here) ...." kinds of frases out of my head with things like peter pan, lion king, aladin, and the list goes on. I'm just waiting for Dopey to get his own adventure. Yuck

Drtooth

10-31-2002, 02:02 PM

Honestly, I don't think the genius behind "Cinderella 2" would do Toy Story 3. They are differnt companies. I felt Toy Story 2 was better than the first (something rare, I never like sequals more). Alladin 3 was pretty good, but only because of Robin Williams. As for the cartoon series, I hated Tarzan, and such, but I liked Timon and Pumbaa, and Buzz Lightyear (I am such a Stooge), plus I am both Psyched and worried that the Lilo and Stitch moivie will be a cartoon (allong with Emperor's new Groove, my two fav Dizzy Flicks)

But I am not saying that Disney buying them is the best thing that will happen to them. I mean, there will be amusment park stuff. I prefer them buying Disney compaired to lets say, Viacom or Saban!