Snoop Dogg Excited About Appearing In 'Muppets' Christmas Special [Archive]

Traveling Matt

08-12-2002, 02:12 PM

Snoop Dogg Excited About Appearing In 'Muppets' Christmas Special

Courtesy of Yahoo! News

Apparently Snoop Dogg, whose stage name partially derives from his resemblance to the Peanuts character Snoopy, isn't only fond of four-legged hounds, he also likes frogs. Well, at least, Kermit The Frog, the lead puppet for the popular Muppets series.

Snoop Dogg will make a cameo in A Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie scheduled to air during the holiday season on NBC. When LAUNCH recently spoke to the rapper, he was anticipating traveling to Vancouver to tape his appearance with Kermit. "Naw, I seen the script. It's tight. It's just kids' stuff, ya know. You know that I'm saying, just something for the kids. And I got three kids. So I think I'm going to take my kids with me out there so they can meet him too, you know. And do something special. Yeah, me and Kermit The Frog. Imagine that," he said.

In addition to Kermit The Frog, the show also stars Miss Piggy, Whoopi Goldberg, Joan Cusack, and David Arquette, in the first-ever made-for-television Muppet movie.

- Billy :cool:

Bean Bunny

08-12-2002, 06:28 PM

"Naw, I seen the script. It's tight. Snoop Dog

I guess that it means that it is a good script.

Luke

08-12-2002, 07:04 PM

I think it means he's lucky to get work since he dropped the 'doggy' ! :D

Traveling Matt

08-12-2002, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Luke
I think it means he's lucky to get work since he dropped the 'doggy' !
Right on! :p

- Billy :cool:

Ryan

08-12-2002, 08:23 PM

Am I the only one who finds it really strange to have a huge pothead rapper guest starring in a Muppet produciton?

Weeeelll, there was Coolio...........;)

beaker

08-12-2002, 09:25 PM

>>>Am I the only one who finds it really strange to have a huge pothead rapper guest starring in a Muppet produciton?<<<

True snoop is so 1994, but Im just glad there is something new coming to tv Muppet special wise.

But just for the kids? Thats not a good press quote Mr. dogg!

Cantus Rock

08-12-2002, 10:37 PM

Scooter, I'm with you. And for anyone who doesn't know, Snoop Dogg was charged with MURDER a few years back. Yes that's right, he was charged with killing a friend of his or something. I don't know the details, but I'm sure MTV.com can give you the whole story. Snoop Dogg, the hardcore ghetto gangsta who smacks the h**s, caps people with his gats, and can hardly complete a sentence, is going to cameo in the new Muppet TV movie. Lord, help us all. :D

-Matt

Struble

08-13-2002, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
And for anyone who doesn't know, Snoop Dogg was charged with MURDER a few years back. Yes that's right, he was charged with killing a friend of his or something. I don't know the details, but I'm sure MTV.com can give you the whole story. Um. No. Snoop was only on trial for murder. The jury found him |not guilty.| The only things he was actually found guilty for is |weapons possesion| and |possesion of an illegal narcotic.| It's really not fair to say he was charged for killing someone.

Honestly, I think the man has killed too many brain cells to figure out how to |hold| a gun, let alone use one. :)

Sh.

Cantus Rock

08-13-2002, 01:17 AM

Yeah I know he wasn't convicted of it, but when your arrested you need a charge. The charge (among the others you mentioned) was Murder. Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean he wasn't charged. No offense. :D

-Matt

Struble

08-13-2002, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
Yeah I know he wasn't convicted of it, but when your arrested you need a charge. The charge (among the others you mentioned) was Murder. Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean he wasn't charged.I know and knew the difference. But you specifically worded it in a misleading way, and I was just pointing out -- for the benefit of anyone who took your bait -- that a convicted fellon wasn't going to be hanging with the Muppets. He's only been convicted of Misdomeaners. :)

Murder was the case that they gave Sh.

Cantus Rock

08-13-2002, 01:32 AM

Okay cool, thanks for clarifying for anyone who might not have known.

Aside from all the legal issues, I think he is just not someone who should be associated with the Muppets..I mean, what is some kid watches the movie, sees him, and decides he needs to buy his album. And the parents, thinking "Well...he was with the Muppets...how bad could he be?" buy the kid the album. And thus explose little Timmy to:

"I shot a mothaf***a just ta take his bread/left twelve cold bullets in the back of his head./ And seeing that the family is mournin' in church/I bust full glocks at em off the window perched"

Now...I'm not going to try to say what a kid should and should not hear...(hehe)

Of course the above could never happen, and it could all just pass by unnoticed. But if it isn't I think it puts an unneeded tarnish on the Muppets. :eek:

-Matt

Struble

08-13-2002, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
"I shot a mothaf***a just ta take his bread/left twelve cold bullets in the back of his head./ And seeing that the family is mournin' in church/I bust full glocks at em off the window perched"I know I'm gonna sing that everynight to my children for their lullaby!

Sh.

Cantus Rock

08-13-2002, 01:41 AM

Hehehe. I guess it really boils down to how large his role in the film is. It says a cameo, so hopefully it'll only be 3 or 4 lines that don't really affect the plot much. :)

-Matt

Luke

08-13-2002, 05:05 AM

I actually agree that he shouldn't be working with the Muppets - i can only imagine that the booker has been told that he's doing something for NBC or an NBC related company. They'd put serious pressure on to get him in there.

scott

08-17-2002, 05:24 PM

I don't think you guys get the sheer brilliance of this. It's always funny to see two opposites acting with eachother. And Snoop has a pretty good sense of acting like a calm, hilarious guy if you've ever seen him on the MTV Movie Awards.

Cantus Rock

08-17-2002, 06:45 PM

I don't really think he is trying to be that way...I think the marijuana was kicking in and he was just too stoned to have a personality! :) Whether its funny or not to the world, I don't know. To me, I think its just not cool. All we need is for Kermit to start packin' heat and Gonzo to get a platnium grill. :D hehe

-Matt

Traveling Matt

08-17-2002, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by CantusRock
Snoop Dogg, the hardcore ghetto gangsta who smacks the h**s, caps people with his gats, and can hardly complete a sentence, is going to cameo in the new Muppet TV movie. Lord, help us all.
LOL! I do wish the folks at Henson (or whoever else is in charge) would pick some celebrities with no criminal record/conviction/rap of any kind.

It just sounds better.

- Billy :cool:

Cantus Rock

08-17-2002, 10:29 PM

I think everyone can agree on that one Billy!

I thought about it even when Coolio was on MT!. I mean, it was okay...he conducted himself in a reasonable mannor, but lord, the man was a gangster! He's been spending most his life living in a gangster paradise! (hehe) So yes, please JHP...I don't think he has any major record, but I'm sure he's has some stuff that we just don't know about. I don't know if I would be able to handle someone like gun-toting, pistol-whipping, wife-beating, trash-talking idiot Eminem rapping with Kermit (ya get what I'm sayin?)

-Matt

Kermie Lover

08-18-2002, 12:11 AM

Whatever:rolleyes: , I don't think that he's any sort of person that should have a role in any family movie-fare, whatsoever.
It's sad that a person of such low moral caliber has children of their own that they are free to corrupt, much less ours. Anyways, it's just my honest hope that none of these co-stars (whether
the good or the REALLY BAD) end up stealing the spotlight from the Muppets. How long will this movie be? If it only clocks in at around an hour to an hour and 30 minutes like I think it will, they'll be squeezing in a lotta cameos, it might get kinda absurd in a way, you know what I mean?

Cantus Rock

08-18-2002, 12:17 AM

I agree with your opinions on the lowlifes with the Muppets.

The Movie should be the normal Muppet movie length (an hour and a half), being it is an actual movie (just made for TV). I doubt there will be any other cameos though, because if there were we'd all know about them already. :)

-Matt

tomahawk

08-18-2002, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Scooter
Am I the only one who finds it really strange to have a huge pothead rapper guest starring in a Muppet produciton?

Weeeelll, there was Coolio...........;)

have you seen timepiece?

Ryan

08-18-2002, 12:12 PM

That was in no way a drug related film. Sure Jim could have been experimenting, but I find the film to be very interesting and groundbreaking.

tomahawk

08-18-2002, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Kermie Lover
Whatever:rolleyes: , I don't think that he's any sort of person that should have a role in any family movie-fare, whatsoever.
It's sad that a person of such low moral caliber has children of their own that they are free to corrupt, much less ours. Anyways, it's just my honest hope that none of these co-stars (whether
the good or the REALLY BAD) end up stealing the spotlight from the Muppets. How long will this movie be? If it only clocks in at around an hour to an hour and 30 minutes like I think it will, they'll be squeezing in a lotta cameos, it might get kinda absurd in a way, you know what I mean?

such low moral caliber? how do you know? don't judge people from what you see on t.v. and of all places mtv.

tomahawk

08-18-2002, 12:18 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scooter
That was in no way a drug related film. Sure Jim could have been experimenting, but I find the film to be very interesting and groundbreaking. [/QUOTE

HOPING YOU WOULD HAVE FOUND THE FUNNY IN IT. WASN'T SAYING IT WAS A DRUG INFLUENCED FILM.

Cantus Rock

08-18-2002, 12:48 PM

Well tomahawk, I will agree that we only see what we are shown. But, what do you think they will show if they are on with the Muppets? And still, if they know we only see what they show us, why don't they show us better things? Were obviously going to feel quite negitive about a convict preforming with or characters, and if they don't like it, thats really just too bad. They can either stay on their side of the fence, or seriously clean up their act and educate themselves (especially Snoop "I can put a sentence together" Dogg) to fit in with our society. I don't care how they live, as long as it doesn't clash with our entertainment.

As for Timepiece, I think because of the nature of this thread your post was misconstrued. You've got to be specific, especially in this type of thread.

-Matt

tomahawk

08-18-2002, 03:17 PM

o.k. if you really want to know how i feel about this(and this will be a little long). we have basically fallen on a slippery slope. if we want to make moral judgement calls on who the muppets are working with lets think back a bit.........hmmmmmm. you'd lose probably half of your guest stars on the muppet show(alice cooper),same goes for the muppet movie(richard pryor)and hey what about weezer who just recently had a song(hash pipe) that had to be edited for of all places mtv.

i could go on forever about people who worked with the jim henson in the past'present and future. as far as i'm concerned this company has always been about pushing the envelope,making great art and making me laugh and feel and grow and learn. its all about drawing way outside the lines.

we all have our opinions and thats great. but when you get into a judgement on peoples morals or whats good for someone else,thats where the slippery slope begins.

Cantus Rock

08-18-2002, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by tomahawk
o.k. if you really want to know how i feel about this(and this will be a little long). we have basically fallen on a slippery slope. if we want to make moral judgement calls on who the muppets are working with lets think back a bit.........hmmmmmm. you'd lose probably half of your guest stars on the muppet show(alice cooper),same goes for the muppet movie(richard pryor)and hey what about weezer who just recently had a song(hash pipe) that had to be edited for of all places mtv.

i could go on forever about people who worked with the jim henson in the past'present and future. as far as i'm concerned this company has always been about pushing the envelope,making great art and making me laugh and feel and grow and learn. its all about drawing way outside the lines.

we all have our opinions and thats great. but when you get into a judgement on peoples morals or whats good for someone else,thats where the slippery slope begins.

I get everything your saying, and to a certain extent I agree. My opinions sparked a pretty big thread of controversy, and I'm not into having that again. Let me just make a few comments.

Alice Cooper - This guy I truely believe never preached a word he followed when he was famous. He worked the angles of shock culture perfectly, and got lots of money for it, which I think is great. (same with Marilyn Manson...I think the guy is a master of giving the kids what they want, and he deserves every penny he gets for it) Now Alice Cooper live in a lovely house in Florida (not that far from me...maybe an hour and a half I think) and plays golf every day at a country club. Nothing wrong with him to me.

Richard Pryor - Okay, I can see the problems here. But you do have to remember, when he was in the prime of his career, African-Americans were being descriminated against heavily still. I think his comedy was good, because it gave them a reason to laugh at the hatred, which is always a good way to heal it. Also you must know, he was a brilliant man with a good head on his shoulders. So he's also OK by me.

Weezer - Yes we had a bit of a discussion on Weezer's "Hash Pipe" and "Dope Nose" songs with drug-related messages. But I believe Weezer is a bit different from the gangsters in question. They are kind of the white nerdy pot smokers, which are (in my opinion) less offensive. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT IN ANY WAY condone the drug related songs. I think, though, that A) Keep Fishin' was a good video to do for the Muppets because it was undrug-related and actually a nice message in general and B) it showcased a happy Weezer, instead of any anger or depression that is all to many times present in the videos of those types of bands.

Now, those are my two cents. I don't want to get on the "Slippery Slope" any more than you do, so I'll just leave it at what I said, and will not comment on the morals of anyone anymore (except for Ryan, because I find him totally immoral and I think he sets a bad example for the rest of us...hehe, JK Scoot, I think you rock hard :D )

-Matt

Ryan

08-18-2002, 06:41 PM

I completley second everything you said. I agree with you completly.

<< except for Ryan, because I find him totally immoral and I think he sets a bad example for the rest of us...hehe, JK Scoot, I think you rock hard )>>

HEY NOW!!!;) :D ;)

tomahawk

08-18-2002, 08:41 PM

don't get me wrong, i love richard pryor,but back in the day he was also well known for a lot of drug related problems. there is one famous story about fire and him running down the street.
look i didn't want to start anything. just stating my opinion.
really i love all of my muppet friends even though i've probably never really met any of you. BIG HUG!!!!!!!!!

Struble

08-18-2002, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
Alice Cooper - This guy I truely believe never preached a word he followed when he was famous. He worked the angles of shock culture perfectly, and got lots of money for it, which I think is great. (same with Marilyn Manson...I think the guy is a master of giving the kids what they want, and he deserves every penny he gets for it) Now Alice Cooper live in a lovely house in Florida (not that far from me...maybe an hour and a half I think) and plays golf every day at a country club. Nothing wrong with him to me.

The same really goes for Mr. Dogg. You don't actually think he's running around shooting people, do you? He was only on trial once for "murder." But even then he was only on trial as an accomplice. Trying to see if he had ordered his bodyguard to kill the guy. Snoop saw a childhood friend making money off of 'gangsta rap,' so he joined him.

It's like Doctor Dre -- he used to be a thug, and now he's not. He moved passed it. He tried making an album about where he is now. About being a successful African American man, and it didn't sell. So on his wifes advice, he went back to "I'm gonna shoot you with my gat" style of rap, because it sells more.

Heck, even MC Hammer joined the gangsta rap scene. Even the New Kids on the Block did. So you really can't judge an author from his book.

And why is being a whiteguy and a potsmoker more palatable? Smoking pot is smoking pot. It's not dependant of your skin colour. Nor is it better depending on the subculture you subscribe to.

"Please hammer, don't hurt 'em."
Sh.

Cantus Rock

08-18-2002, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Struble

The same really goes for Mr. Dogg. You don't actually think he's running around shooting people, do you? He was only on trial once for "murder." But even then he was only on trial as an accomplice. Trying to see if he had ordered his bodyguard to kill the guy. Snoop saw a childhood friend making money off of 'gangsta rap,' so he joined him.

It's like Doctor Dre -- he used to be a thug, and now he's not. He moved passed it. He tried making an album about where he is now. About being a successful African American man, and it didn't sell. So on his wifes advice, he went back to "I'm gonna shoot you with my gat" style of rap, because it sells more.

Heck, even MC Hammer joined the gangsta rap scene. Even the New Kids on the Block did. So you really can't judge an author from his book.

And why is being a whiteguy and a potsmoker more palatable? Smoking pot is smoking pot. It's not dependant of your skin colour. Nor is it better depending on the subculture you subscribe to.

"Please hammer, don't hurt 'em."
Sh.

Well, while he's probably not out shooting people right now, I do believe if he was put in a position with someone he disliked and he just happened to be "packin' heat," I sure that person would be dead. His lack of judgement and action upon impulse has proven that before (when he beat up some fans outside a show in Miami for asking for his autograph.)

I know the deal with Dre, and although its true, hes also not someone who should be with the Muppets. I really don't care whats beneath the surface of these people, because what the world will see is what they are shown. Not everyone is going to dig around and look for the truth, they are going to only see what they see, and know what they are told. So even though Snoop was an accomplace, he will still be seen as a two-bit thug in many peoples eyes, certainly my own. Same with everyone you mentioned (with the exception of NKOTB, because no matter what they do or did, they were just a boy band and noone would believe them as gangsters.). So I don't care who the person is or what they are like off camera, because if they act like a gangster on MTV, it reflects poorly on the Muppets. End of Story.

As for white Rivers-type pot smokers, they always seem to be harmless (the ones I know anyway). And I'm not talking about just white guys, its the type of person. The straighter, nerdy looking guys who are destined to become computer techies. Doesn't matter the skin color as long as they fit the criteria.

PS - Ryan, don't go shooting me now...lol :D

-Matt

petrieboy

08-26-2002, 12:01 AM

I don't have a problem bringing him in with the Muppets for a special. What upset me was Frank Oz's trashy turn in appearing in "An American Werewolf In London," exposing Kermit and Piggy in a film which features, among other things, an extended sequence inside a porno theater and also features Kermit and Piggy in the credits. I was mortified. I'd like to know what Jim thought of it.

Jackie

08-26-2002, 09:47 AM

CraigD

09-11-2002, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by petrieboy
I don't have a problem bringing him in with the Muppets for a special. What upset me was Frank Oz's trashy turn in appearing in "An American Werewolf In London," exposing Kermit and Piggy in a film which features, among other things, an extended sequence inside a porno theater and also features Kermit and Piggy in the credits. I was mortified. I'd like to know what Jim thought of it.

What's wrong with An American Werewolf in London? It's a fantastic movie, and Frank shows what a wonderful sense of humour he has with his cameo in that film (and a few other John Landis films).

And I'm pretty certain Jim would have loved it as well, as Landis played a cameo in Muppets Take Manhatten (which was directed by Oz).

Craig

Patty E.

09-25-2002, 01:09 AM

Parents, don't be fooled by Henson Production. Snoop Doggy Dog's name was coined due to his obsession for a particular sex act. This person is neither wholesome or an appropriate role model for your children. He proudly, degrades women and is obsessed with doing it- "doggy style." Where is your leadership Mr. Rivkin? How unwise of you to glorify this degenerate and incorporate this vulgarity in children's progamming.

Respectfully,
Patty E.
Email: pegerer@aol.com

Cantus Rock

09-25-2002, 06:26 AM

Ya See!! Even his very name is derived from vulgarity. It is NOT OKAY THAT THIS GUY IS WORKING WITH THE MUPPETS!!! Thanks for ressurecting this post, Patty, I wanted to say something here but I forgot while it was still a hot subject. Why do we need to have the urban crowd into the Muppets? I don't see the need for that. Also, why does everyone automatically assume more people will be watching just because he's on? Suppose not a soul in the targetted zone (which I'm sure is what they are looking at, a "targeted zone") watches. Then, it reaches no one they wanted it to get to, and all the people who do watch see him in it, and that's just bad for the Muppets. :(

-Matt

tomahawk

09-25-2002, 11:05 AM

resraint, calm ,back away from the computer. i am a nicer more well adjusted tomahawk.

grail

09-25-2002, 01:57 PM

while i'm still not a fan of the person, i do have to say a couple things. first off, it was my understanding that he got his name because when he was a kid, his friends decided that he looked like Snoopy, and the name stuck, though it's mutated over the years to sound "cool".

secondly, Matt...please re-read your last post, as i think i know your character well enough to know that what you wrote probably had a better sentiment behind it than what it sounds like. but it sounds pretty bad. just thought i'd point that out so someone new to the group doesn't see it and think bad thoughts...

Thog

09-25-2002, 02:01 PM

tomahawk

09-25-2002, 02:44 PM

thog, i totally agree with you. i mentioned these same things earlier in a thread about past performers who had worked with the muppets. maybe snoop is just too threatening.

Thog

09-25-2002, 02:57 PM

He is too threatening for now. But in 10 years from now I really don't think it will be. Just like Alice Cooper was a shocking guest star for his time.

tomahawk

09-25-2002, 02:59 PM

exactly thog. and by the way i love your avatar. have you seen the muppet mock up shirt of ab fab with janice and piggy?

Thog

09-25-2002, 03:02 PM

I love that pic. BTW they are filming a new AbFab special in NYC this week.

tomahawk

09-25-2002, 03:05 PM

thats great news! i can't wait to tell my wife. she got me into ab fab.

kansasteen14

09-25-2002, 07:56 PM

someone mentioned that Muppets shouldnt have guest stars that have been in jail,well there goes everyone in Hollywood,also Cantus Rock I dotn think Snoop Dog should be in it anyway but calm down you always seem to get to excited

Cantus Rock

09-25-2002, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by grail

secondly, Matt...please re-read your last post, as i think i know your character well enough to know that what you wrote probably had a better sentiment behind it than what it sounds like. but it sounds pretty bad. just thought i'd point that out so someone new to the group doesn't see it and think bad thoughts...

Okay, I apologize if that post wasn't up to my normal civil standards. I think I did that this morning, coming off of 4 nights straight of 4 hours sleep (each night that is). Topped off with work, I hardly know what I'm saying anymore. Let me fix up that post a bit:

First off, this is one part of any message board I don't like. Its when there are a large mix of posts one various branch-subjects that stem from the main point. I was commenting on one of the branch subjects when I was talking about this special being made for a "target audience." This is in reply to the various people who were saying that it was good to have the Muppets targeted towards an urban community. My point is, why is it good for this to be targetted at them? I mean, what certain people seem to be saying is that Snoop is just a ploy to get these viewers, and my question is, why? Does JHC really need new viewers that much? Have they lost faith in us raising our kids on Muppets? That was that point. Point two for that branch is, what if this "target audience" thing turns out to be a complete failure? What if noone they were expecting to watches it? Then, the rest of the audience is left having to see this unsavory character on the Muppets special, with no ground gained for JHC. Keep in mind that that is in response to people who made the claim of a target audience, just a little late, like I said, because the post had died that while back.

Now, this whole rehashed issue of Alice Cooper is a bit different from Snoop Dogg. I'm not going to go back into detail, because I'm really not as steamed about this thread as I formerly was, but I just want to mention this; Alice Cooper was never put on trial for murder. I don't know for sure, but I don't think he was ever convicted of any major crime. Snoop Dogg is different in that respect, being he was tried for murder (but not convicted) and other charges. Also, Alice Cooper to this day has not made any pornographic features. This is not the case for Snoop, who has made several. I'm not saying that the Muppets should not be performed with by different new faces, just not these unsavory ones! I mean, put on The White Stripes. Put on rappers like Jurassic 5 who actually have brains in their heads. There are many contemporary artists, performers, etc., that are perfect for perfoming with the Muppets. Despite my blatent dislike for Weezer, I don't think it was bad they performed with them (if I said so in the past, I've come around. Let a man live!). I just want what is best for the young kids who will be watching the show, and I don't think Snoop Dogg is that.

There ya go grail, all better. Said in a very straight forward and civil manner. I'd like my dog biscuit now... :)

-Matt

beaker

09-25-2002, 08:51 PM

>>>Why do we need to have the urban crowd into the Muppets?<<<

I'm curious what type of people would fit into this demographic?

Cantus Rock

09-25-2002, 09:11 PM

I have no idea seriously. I would suppose the lower class, inner city crowd I would guess. I don't know who they are. The question of the statement is not about the type of person tho Cor. I mean, if they had Steve Forbes on in an attempt to gain an audience of upper-class citizens, I'd be arguing the same way at that point. I don't know why any one group of people should be targeted as an audience. If a family wants to watch the Muppets that's fine. Should production plant ploys to intice people who would normally not watch? I don't think so.

-Matt

Thog

09-25-2002, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
I have no idea seriously. I would suppose the lower class, inner city crowd I would guess

Oh thats right....Sesame Street was created for them.

Thog
*being very sarcastic*

Cantus Rock

09-25-2002, 11:05 PM

Well, luckily for me that was sarcasm :). I probably would have posted to no end on the differences there...

-Matt

FellowWLover

09-26-2002, 05:52 AM

We have to remember that Muppets are going for a cross-culture appeal. Snoop Dogg, like it or not, *is* a well-known personality for urban youth. His presence will provide an immediate connection for some kids who may have no idea who the Muppets are. As long as he is fully clothed and suitably presented, I see nothing wrong with him being involved.

I believe that is the original quote to which you might be referring, Matt. That was from me about a month ago.

Now I hear what some people are saying, and I *am* a bit swayed by Patty's points... it does trouble me a bit that Snopp is so unsavory. I certainly wouldn't be happy if Emileigh were to glimpse him on MTV whilst flipping channels, recognize him from a Muppet production and decide to keep watching, only to hear him trash talk about women and "partying", or to see half naked chicks drape themselves all over the screen while he sings about doing it "doggy style". (She doesn't flip channels just yet, but you see my point.) This is the risk we take when we associate someone with Snopp's persona with what *is* still at the point aimed for kids.

However, Matt, I have to say that after reading through your posts here (and remembering your point of view on Goths, Punks, and Freaks) that it may be safe to assume that you have a somewhat narrow view of certain social groups. S'ok.... I am not picking on you. Just might be something to be aware. We all start somewhere.

Cantus Rock

09-26-2002, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by FellowWLover

However, Matt, I have to say that after reading through your posts here (and remembering your point of view on Goths, Punks, and Freaks) that it may be safe to assume that you have a somewhat narrow view of certain social groups. S'ok.... I am not picking on you. Just might be something to be aware. We all start somewhere.

Luckily I don't have any children of my own to be worried about yet, but after stating that I'm quite surprised you still okay with having him on.

I might have a narrow view on gothic subculture. I will be glad to admit that I have narrow views on many social groups, for the simple reason that their thinking offends me, and I see them as a threat (in certain respects) to modern society. Its not like I'm trying to raise any armies against these people or convert anyone to my thinking, its all just my personal opinions. With the hip-hop subculture though, that is quite off-mark. If you go into my "Our Fav. Music" in the General Discussion, you'll see that I am very deep into hip-hop, and would be more than glad (heck, I'd be thrilled) if they'd have a person from the rap community on a Muppet production. I just think it should be one that's a little less morally outragous. Now, you might be saying "Matt, a moral rapper is an oxymoron," but that's just not so. There are many solo artists and groups with good, honest, intelligent people, who would all be great for the show or any Muppet production. I just don't see why it was necissary to choose Snoop.

Like you said, its all part of the risks of giving the children clickers after having them seen Snoop on a family special. In a way it would be worse having him be a perfect, well spoken man on the special, because should they see him elsewhere they'd be more inclined to watch. I don't know how old your daughter is, but I just don't think that any of the young ones need to be influenced by him. When their older, they can decide whats right and wrong for themselves, then that's different. But for now, if only to keep the small shred of innocence that the world will allow, I say, keep him away.

-Matt

tomahawk

09-26-2002, 10:10 AM

but the thing is, how do you know that these other hip hop artists are morally acceptable? is it because they are not popular enough for the media to want to pick any of their closets clean? probably a blessing for them. being morally acceptable is a fine line to draw. i believe i stated this before but i am no angel, far from it. does that mean i should'nt be allowed to be involved with muppety fun stuff?

grail

09-26-2002, 11:04 AM

bottom line time...we really need to get over this thread...

i am NOT a fan of Snoop Dog, never have been, never will be, and basically for all the reasons that have been hammered into everyone who has bothered to read it. HOWEVER, he does have a fan base, his name will attract some viewers (hopefully more than it turns away), and at the end of the day, if Henson wants to let him be in the picture, then he's gonna be in the picture. we all know we're gonna watch no matter what, so we might as well get over it.

besides, if what some of the others have said about him trying to clean himself up is true, then i say more power to him. lord only knows where i'd be without second, third, fourth, etc chances. if he wants to do something that his kids can (legally) see before the age of 18, then who am i to argue. it's not like he's starring here.

we don't have to be happy about it, but...and here's the life lesson...our opinions aren't always the ones that matter. my suggestion is to just let it go...in the end, it's not worth fighting over. life is too short.

oh, and on a sidenote that REALLY torques me off:

you don't want your kids watching his "other ventures", then watch the tv WITH your kids...i grew up with a television for a babysitter, and i wouldn't wish that upon any child.

now before anyone says anything about that statement, only one person in here has mentioned her own child in relation to this, and i get the distinct impression that she is not the type to do that, so i am NOT pointing a finger at her. from what i can tell, she is just the type TO actually sit and watch with her child, and to teach her early on what things she shouldn't bother with trying to watch on her own...i just wanted to clear that up first.

anyway...people that cry foul because there are objectionable things on tv really get on my nerves. you want to know what your child's watching? you want to try and shape their interests? sit down and watch with them. all those Muppet movies that we ALL have? why not plop down on the couch and pop one in while they're around. show them what real humor is...what's actually WORTH watching.

sorry...that's a touchy subject for me...i kinda rambled incoherently there...

FellowWLover

09-26-2002, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by grail
bottom line time...we really need to get over this thread...

Why?

Everytime we hit an interesting subject, somebody wants to shut it down. Why can't we discuss it? It is MUPPET related, and topical.

As for your question Matt, my daughter is three and a half. And as you can see from my posts, I have gone back and forth a bit on this subject. No, I wouldn't want her to have Snoop as a role model, but fortunately for me, she doesn't watch TV without me. I don't know what the answer is here. That is why I think it is fine to talk about it. I am glad that you took my post in the vein that it was intended.

towels

09-26-2002, 11:31 AM

Here's a question that could probably use answering...who picked the guest stars? My guess would be that NBC had a lot of say as to the human content of this "movie".
Henson/Em.tv are likely very happy to be getting major network exposure and it could be that they were unwilling to say no, even if they had any moral qualms.

Boober_Baby

09-26-2002, 12:02 PM

Aw, I kinda like Snoop Doggy Dogg! (I ALWAYS call him Doggy Dogg... it's so old school, man!). Now, I don't really know any of you that well so I'm gonna try not to make any assumptions, but A LOT of people have experimented with drugs, and I'm willing to bet (but not to assume) that a lot of you have too. Now, I could be COMPLETELY wrong here, but I'm just trying to make a point... albeit a weak one, but still. Give the man a break!

Also, while watching Much News (from MuchMusic, for those who don't know, a Canadian MTV) I heard that Snoop is giving up drugs... or at least TRYING to give up drugs. I dunno if he did or not, but it seems to me that Snoop's trying to turn himself around a little. And what better way to clean up his act then on the Muppets! You go, Doggy Dogg!

Really, to me, what it comes down to is none of us really know Snoop on a personal level. He could very well be just like any of us! And, as we are all Muppet fans here, wouldn't you love the chance to be on TV with Kermit for even a second? Snoop just wants to have some fun with the frog! Didn't you read the title!? He's excited, man! Let the man have his frog! (And eat it too! ... JUST KIDDING! ^^;)

And... uh... this post is really incoherent and stupid, but I'm just trying to let you all see my point of view. And if I offended anybody, I apologize in advance. Please don't take any of what I said to heart... I'm just defending a man.

^_^ Debo

FellowWLover

09-26-2002, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Boober_Baby

And... uh... this post is really incoherent and stupid, but I'm just trying to let you all see my point of view.

Course it is... judging from what you said, you were probably *high* when you wrote it!

Heh heh ;)

Seriously, I think the porn is more the issue than his penchant for "smoking bones".

tomahawk

09-26-2002, 04:07 PM

why is everyone so uptight about porno? i mean they are doing a job(no pun intended) and getting paid,nicely i might add. if you don't like it don't watch it. same goes for the muppet christmas special, if you are determined to make a statement about snoop don't watch the show.

Cantus Rock

09-26-2002, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by tomahawk
why is everyone so uptight about porno? i mean they are doing a job(no pun intended) and getting paid,nicely i might add. if you don't like it don't watch it. same goes for the muppet christmas special, if you are determined to make a statement about snoop don't watch the show.

First, in response to your first post about hip-hop stars, tomahawk:

Noone is perfect, that is obvious. But, from what you've said you seem to not blieve that there are any good hip-hoppers period. Now granted everyone has a good amount of bones shoved in the closet, but, look at it this way: Jurassic 5. I've met them, they are intelligent well spoken indivisuals. They were never arrested before. Snoop Dogg. Well, he's Snoop. And he has been arrested and convicted of crimes. I think that that would be a good line to draw when determining the morale of a hi-hop star, or any person for that matter.

Now, on to the quoted piece. This is something I feel extremely strong about. Think about this very valid point. A prostitute gets paid to have sex. A pornographic film "star" (and i use the term very loosely) gets paid to have sex on film. Why is she any different from a hooker??? I mean, think about it. What, just because some "director" (again, loose term) is telling them how to do it or where or whatever make it not prosititution?!?! I think it's absurd. Now granted I think that hookers are one of the lowest forms of life on the planet, and that the people who need to go to them are very sad indivisuals. But if its okay to have two people paid to have sex while being filmed, I think that its only fair to have people be paid to have sex off film. "But Matt, that's disgusting! People shouldn't be allowed to be paid for sex!!!" RIGHT! So either stop paying porn stars for selling themselves, or legalize prostitution in states that it isn't legal. I opt for the first one. Abolish porn.

*can't wait to hear the porn defense posts that are soon to come...*

-Matt

Cantus Rock

09-26-2002, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
First, in response to your first post about hip-hop stars, tomahawk:

Noone is perfect, that is obvious. But, from what you've said you seem to not believe that there are any good hip-hoppers period. Now granted everyone has a good amount of bones shoved in the closet, but, look at it this way: Jurassic 5. I've met them, they are intelligent well spoken indivisuals. They were never arrested before. Snoop Dogg. Well, he's Snoop. And he has been arrested and convicted of crimes. I think that that would be a good line to draw when determining the morale of a hip-hop star, or any person for that matter.

Now, on to the quoted piece. This is something I feel extremely strong about. Think about this. A prostitute gets paid to have sex. A pornographic film "star" (and i use the term very loosely) gets paid to have sex on film. Why is she any different from a hooker??? I mean, think about it. What, just because some "director" (again, loose term) is telling them how to do it or where or whatever make it not prosititution?!?! I think it's absurd. Now granted I think that hookers are one of the lowest forms of life on the planet, and that the people who need to go to them are very sad indivisuals. But if its okay to have two people paid to have sex while being filmed, I think that its only fair to have people be paid to have sex off film. "But Matt, that's disgusting! People shouldn't be allowed to be paid for sex!!!" RIGHT! So either stop paying porn stars for selling themselves, or legalize prostitution in states that it isn't legal. I opt for the first one. Abolish porn.

*can't wait to hear the porn defense posts that are soon to come...*

And grail, I do agree that its a pretty beaten issue, and the debate is kind of running in circles. But if people want to keept the thread going, I think its a pretty good forum to let some of my feelings be shown (as seen above). Now that I'm sleeping a bit more I'm able to articulate, and I even managed to get a nice response from Ms. WLover. :D

-Matt

Uh...I messed up a bit...that is the editted version of my original post. Sorry about that all.

-Matt

FellowWLover

09-26-2002, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
Now granted I think that hookers are one of the lowest forms of life on the planet, and that the people who need to go to them are very sad indivisuals.

Now there is some sexism if I ever heard it... two people commit an illegal sex act. The women are the lowest forms of life on earth, and the men are sad individuals, presumably worthy of pity not condemnation. Hmm.

Cantus Rock

09-26-2002, 05:33 PM

I guess that didn't come out in type the way I thought it. Those statements were supposed to run together to apply to both people. Both sexes deserve ample condemnation. And, what about male prostitutes? Same applies to them, and they're male.

-Matt

towels

09-26-2002, 06:30 PM

open debate...open debate!

Let's play the draw the line game.
What about in Fatal Attraction (as an example)? They filmed a sex act. Should they be arrested? How much can be shown before it's illegal? Heck, people are sleeping together all the time on Friends.
Or is it about body parts? Unless you agree with Ashcroft on the statue issue, are you defining it as body parts on film? What if they shoot it digitally?
It seems very hard to define once you get to the details.

Or perhaps it's because I'm from different camp and feel what two consenting people do with each other is their business. It's not my job to judge what people are entertained by anyway. Otherwise Adam Sandler would be broke!

FellowWLover

09-26-2002, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Cantus Rock
Now that I'm sleeping a bit more I'm able to articulate, and I even managed to get a nice response from Ms. WLover.

Now just what was *that* supposed to mean?

Heh.

Cantus Rock

09-26-2002, 07:05 PM

heh, just a little jokey...we've had our bad run-ins in the past, that's all...:)

Towels, your post is a good one, and I will be replying to it later this evening.

-Matt

tomahawk

09-27-2002, 02:21 AM

first of all matt i don't know where you got the impression that i said there were no good hip hop artists. i was just stating that snoop was a higher profile target for the media to rain thier ever-wonderful c%@p upon. and as for abolishing all porn, i think i'm going to pop in a few of my "secret videos".

Boober_Baby

09-27-2002, 09:37 AM

Dude! I love porn! (I'm a sick, sad individual)

No really... it's HILARIOUS! The way I see it is porn is a good thing. It provides hours of comedy to immature people like me. I mean, no one actually has sex that way. And the guy is always so ugly and hairy, but somehow... he always gets the hottest chick. It's so, so FUNNY!

And yeah! You go, Tomahawk! You go!

^_^

tomahawk

09-27-2002, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Boober_Baby
Dude! I love porn! (I'm a sick, sad individual)

No really... it's HILARIOUS! The way I see it is porn is a good thing. It provides hours of comedy to immature people like me. I mean, no one actually has sex that way. And the guy is always so ugly and hairy, but somehow... he always gets the hottest chick. It's so, so FUNNY!

And yeah! You go, Tomahawk! You go!

^_^ oh and i did.thanks for the support.

beaker

09-27-2002, 03:59 PM

The fact is Im protesting Snoop Dogg in the Muppet film because he's so 1994...they should have gotten Busta Rhymes, as he's much more Muppet looking and slightly more relevant.

As for 'moral' rappers vs gansta rap artists. Sure Coolio, Will Smith, LL Cool J are considered 'safe, pg' rappers...but these guys are slightly mor emoney to obtain than has been mid 90's West Coast gangsta artists.

I believe certain PC sensibilities are holding back what people are trying to say here. I'll leave it at that.

But for the record, I think its interesting how Sesame Street is an inner city ubran dwelling...and look how nice that show ended up being.

Perhaps some people get clouded by what they see on MTV(or "eMpTyV" as I say) Perhaps images of Emenem, Puff Daddy, and Jay-Z clout their perception of inner city life...or just the 'urban' fashion(which despite it not being 1990, is still popular) Go to any mall, the urban style is still quite popular.
Dragon Ball Z shirts seem to be the newest trend.

The idea that 'clean, safe white rock' that promotes drug use is poppycock.

Finally...the real argument should be why the heck do they have to settle for Snoop Dogg...who like Monica Lewinski, Newt Gengrich, and OJ Simpsons is from the lame 90's archives.

pdiddy

09-27-2002, 09:25 PM

*sigh* I would have loved to see snoop kicking it with the muppets. how sad. http://www.henson.com/company/press/html/092702.html

Cantus Rock

09-27-2002, 11:30 PM

...and thankfully that can close my end of the discussion. There is such pathos emulating from this thread its making me sick.

-Matt

Cantus' Ghost

10-01-2002, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Patty E.
Parents, don't be fooled by Henson Production. Snoop Doggy Dog's name was coined due to his obsession for a particular sex act. This person is neither wholesome or an appropriate role model for your children. He proudly, degrades women and is obsessed with doing it- "doggy style." Where is your leadership Mr. Rivkin? How unwise of you to glorify this degenerate and incorporate this vulgarity in children's progamming.

Respectfully,
Patty E.
Email: pegerer@aol.com

His name is derived from a "sex act," is it? WHO CARES?????????????????????

danielromens

10-01-2002, 03:51 PM

Forumers don't be fooled, Patty's name was derived for an affinity with a certain style breakfast sausage. This can also be found in the form of chicken, fish, peppermint and even vegan styles. With the exception of the later these horrible products are known to lead to health problems and I vex the incipid wretch who would try currupt our children with such a horrible and crude pie of lunchen snack. For shame.

Again I agree, god forbid Snoop try and clean up for his kids. Shame on overzealous too-good opiniators like Patty for deciding for others who their kids can and cannot watch. Get a life. If you don't want your kids to see him turn the channel, but let those of us who aren't bothered make our own decisions.

God I hate those people. Mind your own business.

tomahawk

10-01-2002, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by danielromens
Forumers don't be fooled, Patty's name was derived for an affinity with a certain style breakfast sausage. This can also be found in the form of chicken, fish, peppermint and even vegan styles. With the exception of the later these horrible products are known to lead to health problems and I vex the incipid wretch who would try currupt our children with such a horrible and crude pie of lunchen snack. For shame.

Again I agree, god forbid Snoop try and clean up for his kids. Shame on overzealous too-good opiniators like Patty for deciding for others who their kids can and cannot watch. Get a life. If you don't want your kids to see him turn the channel, but let those of us who aren't bothered make our own decisions.

God I hate those people. Mind your own business. and again i must saY BRAVO!!