recent disney abominations

[beaker]

now im sure to some degree we all have a love for disney.
how could ya not at some level. however, is it me or is the big Diz becoming alarmingly...whats the word, cheap?

case in point, the stomach churning cringe in your seat how could any loving parent take their kid to this 'country bears movie'. they should have people protesting how hideous and lame this looks.

or what about the rash of recent 'cheapquels'. once upon a time in the late 90's disney cared about production values and plot in their sequels. why i loved aladdin 3 king of thieves and lion king 2. but now? it started with little mermaid 2. horrid horrid. this was 2001? animation looked more like 1981. then i rented tarzan 2 the other night, as i loved the first tarzan. wow. to say this was made on a top ramen budget would be an understatement.
this looks like it was made as a joke by some community college students, and has zero of the fun, excitement, or even 1/1000 of the look of the tarzan 1999 cartoon.

next we have what can only be described as the bottom of the barrel. for some reason peter pan 2 came to theatres, tho it is a definate cheapquel. then we have cinderella 2 and hunchback 2? are parents really this gullible, or this mean to their kids? (then again I didnt find the first hunchback or most of the mid 90's disney contraptions all that innovative or fun)

What's up? disney has had some great sequels. fantasia 2000,
pinnochio 2 emperor of the night. but these? c'mon. but it gets worse. on the trailer for tarzan 2 was a preview 'for disney's latest animated feature for the whole family'. micket and the house of villians. now i like the saturday morning hsow, its the only new disney animation of classic characters in decades, and inventively brings all the modern and new characters into the same canon. but man...when i saw what this would be, basically new footage of mickey in the house of mouse, but mostly clips of all the villians from 60's and 70's films with their voices dubbed.
Are kids really this stupid? or Parents? Disney sure thinks so.

So about that Disney buyout of Muppets...these recent examples arent helping their case. However, I will say this...
disney released the best darn movie IMHO last year(monsters inc.) and are releasing japan's #1 movie ever, the beautifully illustrated anime film spirited away this fall(for folks who think anime is just pokemon)

[grail]

personally, i've never been for the Muppets being owned by the Mouse...and you've just nailed a big reason as to why...

i REFUSE to watch any of the Diz sequals that came out after Lion King 2, as they're all horrible, horrible, horrible ideas. Disney has no concept of a "good idea" anymore, and i honestly think they lucked out with Lilo and Stitch (i haven't had a chance to see it yet, but i hear it's excellent).

one of the best moves the Mouse ever made was doing business with Pixar. that's the ONLY reason i give Diz any credit...that one took some foresight. Pixar is not Disney, though...and for some reason, i think i heard a rumor that it was Lassater's idea for the Mouse to pick up the distribution rights to all those anime movies...which Disney almost killed when they butchered the release of Princess Mononoke. it's awesome! but it got no press, and quickly became one of the higher priced DVDs on the market. thankfully it's cheaper now...

in short, the Muppets should STAY AWAY from Disney...

Pixar, though...

[BoyRaisin2]

Pinocchio 2 Emperor of the Night?

[grail]

Originally posted by BoyRaisin2
Pinocchio 2 Emperor of the Night?

yeah, i hadn't heard about it either, but i felt pretty dumb saying so...

someone care to enlighten us lowly know-nothings?

[beaker]

>>>personally, i've never been for the Muppets being owned by the Mouse...and you've just nailed a big reason as to why...<<<

well, its hard to imagine people can defend disney's actions in the last year when it comes to 'creativity'. it seems all post lion king 2 sequels must now be the bottom of the barrel quality, but more than that the alarming rate of how many are being released.
the split on this is disney with emperor's groove finally broke that song and dance save the princess two talking sidekicks and an evil emperor format that was killing them creatively in the 90's.
little mermaid, well that is what started it. i liked it, but 8 mermaid clones later it was good to see emperor's new groove. and i liked the animation of atlantis.

to me, disney's relaly only creative cred is pixar...but ive been a fan of pixar since i saw those cgi shorts in the late 80's.

oh dont even get me started with how they handled princess mononoke. because of a contract they finally did a limited release, but with zero press. i guess they rather promote thier b*stardized version of high end japanese anime. we'll see how they promote princess mononoke.

so for all those who wonder why we dont like modern disney chinanigans, these above are but the tip of the iceberg.

oh, emperor of the night(pinnochio 2) was this epic, yet very dark sequel miramax put out in 1987 in theatres.
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0093743

of course, if i were to see it today i probably would be less than impressed.

[BoyRaisin2]

Pinocchio 2 Emperor of the Night. Disney. Miramax. 1987. OK.

[FellowWLover]

Well I *was* looking forward to seeing The Country Bears, that is until I saw a preview for it... ugh! It did seem to have promise a few months ago, though. I mean it includes puppets and is G-rated which is **** rare these days. It does look just awful though, and we won't be seeing it. Lilo and Stitch we did see, however.

[grail]

heh

the fact that you cursed about something being g-rated is funny to me...

and yeah, when i heard that Christopher Walken was in it i was intrigued...but now...eww...

[FellowWLover]

I live for your amusement.


:D

[beaker]

hey, so lio and stitch is good? I havent gotten around to it yet, but the style of it seems unique enough. personally im a fan of these 2000+ breakway format animated films from disney(it all started january 1st 2000 with fantastia 2000 and continued with emperor's new groove, atlantis, lilo and stitch, and treasure planet soon)

[Bean Bunny]

Pinocchio 2 Emperor of the Night wasn't done by Disney, it was Filmation, makers of He-Man(oringal) and Fat Abert.

[FellowWLover]

I liked Lilo and Stich... ok, so there are things that I would change, but overall, I thought it was very fresh and funny. I laughed, I cried, you know the drill. It really was amusing in places, and I thought the animation was pretty.

Warning to parents though... it is scary for little kids in places. My daughter claimed that she liked it, well, you judge... her comment was, "I didn't very like it". She only liked the surfing scenes, but then again, she is a beach baby, so that might be expected.

[MIKEB97]

Imagine if Disney turned the Muppets into animated characters.

[Bean Bunny]

Imagine Henson turning the Muppets into animated characters, well a second that happened. Muppet Babies and Muppet Monsters.

Disney mostly likey would stick with live-action forms of the Muppets.

[BoyRaisin2]

But imagine, if you DARE, the Disney characters as puppets.

Oh, wait, the Book of Pooh (which uses a very cool form of puppetry). Never mind.

Dumbo's Circus. Pooh Corner. That proposed "Little Mermaid's Island" series. Hmmm...

[beaker]

Ok, now Im a big modern Pooh fan(ie: 'new adventures of winnie the pooh' circa 1989 to present) but...that 'book of pooh'...oh my gosh that makes me cringe:-&

i guess it kinda worked with wubbulous world, but i just dont see how puppets based on diz would work.

disney is and will always be just 2d toons. its sad to see them try to intergrate pixar characters with disney characters, as one of these days pixar has gotta break free!

[kansasteen14]

do any of you know anything about Disney that doesnt have to do with muppets? first off it is NOT tarzan 2 it is Tarzan and jane it is 3 of the episodes from the animated show tarzan.also Lilo and Sitich is one the BEST Disney movies ever and where do you get Pinocchio 2,I mean if you have read anything Disney you will see no Pinocchio 2 and do you know how many great things Disney could do with the muppets,I mean look at Muppet Vision 3D it is great and Disney had just as much to do with it as Henson and I agree some of the sequels have been cheap but Peter Pan 2 was great.and if you actually went to see the Country bears you would see it is good.

[beaker]

>>>do any of you know anything about Disney that doesnt have to do with muppets? first off it is NOT tarzan 2 it is Tarzan and jane it is 3 of the episodes from the animated show tarzan<<<

Actually to correct you; it is being advertised and package as a 'sequel' full length feature...and as far as being episodes of the tv show, I thought that too, but the level of animation on the film is even subpar of even the tv show. It has this very strange herky jerky missing frames thing going on. Basically doesnt even hold a candle to the great original in terms of animation or story.


also Lilo and Sitich is one the BEST Disney movies ever and where do you get Pinocchio 2,I mean if you have read anything Disney you will see no Pinocchio 2 and do you know how many great things Disney could do with the muppets<<<

I havent seen Lilo, so it could be one of those nice surprises like Emperor's new Groove. Secondly, where do I get Pinnochio 2?
I provided the link to imdb.com for those who never heard of Emperor of the Night. If you recall, there was a Snow White 2 called Snow White 2: Happily Ever after.

And I agree, there are is a lot of great potential in a Disney buyout...so yes, pros and cons.

>>>I agree some of the sequels have been cheap but Peter Pan 2 was great<<<

Well for it being the year 2002 that animation was pretty bad.
Also, why does Disney need to put out so many cheap sequels?
It felt like Lion King 2 was the last sequel Disney really wanted to put effort in.

and if you actually went to see the Country bears you would see it is good.<<<

Youre kidding right? PErsonally, this film shoul dbe banned like Disney banned Song of the South(Tho I think they should release Song of the South in the US)

[radionate]

Originally posted by beaker
I havent seen Lilo, so it could be one of those nice surprises like Emperor's new Groove. Secondly, where do I get Pinnochio 2?
I provided the link to imdb.com for those who never heard of Emperor of the Night. If you recall, there was a Snow White 2 called Snow White 2: Happily Ever after. Just to clear this up for folks, these aren't Disney Animation Studio products (they are from Disney owned company labels like Filmation). So technically they are Disney, but I don't know how much of a hand Mr. Eisner (as he likes to be called) had in these. There is, however, a plan in the works for Disney Animation to create a Snow White sequal. Walt isn't turning over in his grave, he's spinning!

[beaker]

>>>Just to clear this up for folks, these aren't Disney Animation Studio products (they are from Disney owned company labels like Filmation). So technically they are Disney, but I don't know how much of a hand Mr. Eisner <<<

Ture, but at any rate I would wager most Disney fans might not know about the existence of Pinnochio Emperor of the Night, Snow White 2: Happily Ever After or Song of the South(the ONLY film your beloved Disney has made sure never sees th elight of day)

[Bean Bunny]

Guys, you got it all wrong. Both Pinnochio Emperor of the Night, Snow White 2: Happily Ever After were made by Filmation ( Filmation is not owned by Disney and never has been.) The current owner of the Filmation library is Hallmark. Disney had no hands in these two films. If you don't believe go to www.cartoonresearch.com and www.he-man.org ( Ask someone on the message board about these two Filmation films and they will tell you that these are not Disney's). Okay. I have seen Emperor of the Night and repeat don't not have anything to do with the Walt Disney Company.

From Cartoon Research:
133. PINOCCHIO AND THE EMPEROR OF THE NIGHT (12/25/87) . New World 91 D: Hal Sutherland. A "sequel" to PINOCCHIO, finds our hero celebrating his first year as a real boy. His new sidekick, a "glowbug" named Gee Wilikers accompanies Pinocchio on an errand which goes awry as he is returned to being a wooden puppet. Only by confronting the evil Emperor of the Night can he return to normal. A Filmation production.


173. HAPPILY EVER AFTER (5/28/93) First National. 74 mins. D: John Howley. Snow White escapes an evil King by entering a forest where seven Dwarfelles (female dwarfs) befriend her. A Filmation production.

Moving on, Sure does some bad stuffs sometime ex: Max Keeble and Inspector Gadget but other studios have as well, Warner Brothers ( Battle Field Earth, Batman & Robin, and Space Jam). Look on the postive side, Remeber The Titian, The Rookie, The Princess Diaries, Lilo & Stitch, Pretty Woman, Good Will Hunting (Miramax), Fantasia 2000, Home Improvement, Signs, and The Sixth Sense. These are among the great projects that Walt Disney has done over the past few years. I know that these boards are Muppet fans based, who usually hate all things Disney for some strange reason but gave them a chance. Every Studio has errors.

[beaker]

>>>I know that these boards are Muppet fans based, who usually hate all things Disney for some strange reason but gave them a chance. Every Studio has errors<<<

Hey bean...youre right, I think there is a heavy anti Disney bias. I actually love disney, but question about some of their more recent practices...hence this thread which helps illustrate some of their recent examples of stinkyness. Pixar alone, since it *is* under the Diz banner, has become like the creative backbone of the company in the way of innovation and freshness.

And yes, those were not Disney released sequels, but I listed them as examples of how there were cheapquels off Disney films in the late 80's, so why would 15 years disney start making their own?

[radionate]

OK, didn't Miramax at one time hold the rights to filmation properties, thus making it a Disney Tie?

Also is it DIC that disney owns? (whatever cheap cartoon company it is, it allowed them the rights to make Inspector Gadget)

I'm confusing myself now

[Bean Bunny]

Disney once held the rights to DIC but in 2000 they bought themselves back from Disney. As for Filmation, I don't believe Miramax ever released them, if they did it would probably when Disney don't own them.

[beaker]

>>>Disney once held the rights to DIC but in 2000 they bought themselves back from Disney. As for Filmation, I don't believe Miramax ever released them, if they did it would probably when Disney don't own them<<<

A small company actually bought itself back from the big Diz? whoah...you know what this means? If the eventual Disney buyout of JHC does happen, perhaps oneday JHC can buy itslef back!

[kansasteen14]

and most Disney fans HAVE heard of song of the south if you ever went to a Disney discussion board and asked about Song of The South you would see many people want it un-banned.there are petitions everywhere and also if you have ever been to a Disney park you will see they have a ride dedicated to it called Splash Mt. and why is it everyone here hates Disney?

[beaker]

>>>and most Disney fans HAVE heard of song of the south if you ever went to a Disney discussion board and asked about Song of The South you would see many people want it un-banned<<<

Disney no tlistening to fans when it comes to home releases? Naw, it couldnt be!(*cough* MTI and MCC widescreen *cough*)

there are petitions everywhere and also if you have ever been to a Disney park you will see they have a ride dedicated to it called Splash Mt. and why is it everyone here hates Disney?<<<

Hey, I remember that ride! Yeah, Disney is weird...they have virtually banned Song of the South but have plushes for it and theme rides. I dont see what the big deal is, I mean I know once the politically correct 90's rolled around they officially banished this one. But I really do hope it gets rereleased.

As far as the disney hating...well I definately see some valid points for some resentment...however I also see some valid points for the benefits of a buyout.

[Bean Bunny]

Song Of The South is a tough to release because of fears of boycotts and such.

[beaker]

>>>Song Of The South is a tough to release because of fears of boycotts and such<<<

I twas only released in the UK on vhs. If it had been released on UK dvd that would have ben fine for me as I can play PAL dvds...but not PAL vhs. Now fears of boycotts...why do they have Brier Rabbit books, Song of the south plushes, rides...but no movie itself released? And who would boycott it? I would hope the painfully lame politically correct 90's are over.

Why would Disney ban one of its own classics? Its just odd, and a trend of Disney and bad release decisions.

[kansasteen14]

actually it is true that it is pretty stupid for it to be banished but to answer your questions:

the people who would boycott it are the same people stupid enough to boycott Pirates of the Carribean because of The men chasing women and a large women chasing a man but say its ok for the woman to chase the man for food.and I think the reason they have plushes are because those dont feature the human character who was supposed to be a slave.I really HATE the people who boycott things like that,that make no sense.

[Joseph]

I think disney is running out of good ideas.

[grail]

they aren't running out...they've been out for years.

as for song of the south. i too think a "ban" is silly, as love it or hate it, it is a part of the history of this country. they obviously thought it was a good idea at some point, or they never would have made the movie. i think i kinda understand it though...they're trying to pretend it never existed, so as not to offend anyone...which i think is almost MORE offensive.

[Crazy Harry]

Originally posted by grail
they aren't running out...they've been out for years.
In all fairness, good ideas just don't come around as much as they used to. Good ideas used to frolic around in this counrty freely, but now they've been hunted to the point of near extinction. It's sad really.

[grail]

that is a good point...sad, but a good point nevertheless

[beaker]

>>>as for song of the south. i too think a "ban" is silly, as love it or hate it, it is a part of the history of this country. they obviously thought it was a good idea at some point, or they never would have made the movie. i think i kinda understand it though...they're trying to pretend it never existed, so as not to offend anyone...which i think is almost MORE offensive<<<

man, disney...dont people know song of the south is a celebration...its not like some kind of messed up minstrel show version of who framed roger rabbit! Its a celebration of freedom, handed down slave songs, etc. perhaps if they unbanned it people would see that. believe me, they have way more 'exploitation' attorcities out there that are not banned, than this great classic.

[Gonzo]

The short version:

1) Children really ARE that easy to please
2) Parents really ARE that (stupid, lazy, whatever it is)
3) The only remotely Disney-related sequels I'll EVER see are the Toy Story flicks, and those are Pixar and John Lasseter, NOT NOT NOT Disney.

It seriously makes my stomach hurt, what's happened to Disney in the last ten years or so. How they could keep churning out schmoo like this is beyond me. Why people would keep lining up for it--hopefully someone out there is learning.

But I wouldn't could on it.

Quinnnnnn

[grail]

what upsets me is that Disney once stated that they would release no sequels to a theater. now, as Quinn pointed out this does not count for the Pixar stuff (i heard a rumor about Toy Story 3 the other day...Tim Allen and Tom Hanks are trying to help get it done, there's apparantly already a script...all rumor), but Disney broke that promise. and what did they break it for? a steamy pile called "Return to Neverland". it makes Tomb Raider look Oscar-worthy. heck, it makes "Manos: The Hands of Fate" look Oscar-worthy. there's a joke there about Oscar, and the fact that these movies are trash, but i'd have to re-word half the post to get it right. so you can just let your imagination run with that one.

[Gonzo]

"Manos: The Hand Of Fate"....LOL!!!!

MAN, if MST3K could get their mitts on some of those Disney sequels.....okay, if MST3K were still AROUND....

Quinnnnnn

[Crazy Harry]

Why did you have to bring up the fact that MST3K is gone? Now I am sad.

[grail]

i'm one of the lucky ones...i have MST3K: The Movie on DVD...not many of these things exist. a friend of mine has a Tom Servo and Crow. they're dead on perfect...

there's been some discussion about doing an MST3K of our own for our next InConjunction...we're trying to come up with a good movie to do...but the trick is we have to be able to watch it over and over. I'm pushing for "Menno's Mind"