The new Muppet movie and TV series

[Chilly Down]

Hey, MC gang,

One thing that hasn't really been discussed on the forum yet is what we?d like to see in the upcoming Muppet Christmas TV-movie and Muppet series for Fox. No one knows for sure how often the writers, etc. check this forum, but I suppose we ought to give them some kind of an idea of what we're looking for in case they check in, right? So here are some of my thoughts:

--First, characters we'd like to see. Pepe is a definite; after the LJS commercials he should have a little bit of recognizability to the rest of the audience, and we Muppet fans are all dying to see more of the little shrimp--sorry, king prawn. Let's see more Bobo too! (Heck, all of Bill's characters are great. I'd love to see Clueless Morgan again if they can find a logical way to work him in.) Since it's widely rumored from a lot of sources that a new performer has taken over Piggy, there's a good chance that we'll see her back in action as well. Any chances we'll also have Fozzie or Animal? Since Bill Barretta is now performing Rowlf and Brian Henson has the Newsman, let's see more of these characters also. While neither voice is a dead-on match, the writing for these two at the Fest was perfect and the performers accurately captured their personalities. If these two show up again, I'll have no complaints. (They can even bring them back slowly, but let's not let the live gala be a fluke!)

--I'd also like to see more of Sal. Note I didn't say Sal and Johnny Fiama. I have nothing against Johnny, but he never made me fall on the floor laughing. Neither did Sal at first--but then, curiously enough, he made me laugh all weekend long at the Fest. Sal was the only character they had deliberately sent for Brian, and Bill usually had Pepe on his hand, so Sal was forced to interact with other characters for a change through Brian's improvisation. And he was GREAT. (Of course, the whole "Get outta Johnny" bit was very funny and memorable too.) In the live show, Sal popped up frequently -- and he was hilarious -- while Johnny only showed up as background in one of the production numbers. I'm not saying that we should get rid of Johnny. What I'm saying is that I'm intrigued at how well Sal interacted with the others, and I'd like to see this direction explored more in the future to see where it leads. Who knows? Sal may about to be explode into prominence the way Pepe did in Muppets From Space.

--Let's also get at least one musical number in the Christmas movie with the Electric Mayhem; they're missed by hardcore fan and non-fan alike. ("Jingle Bell Rock," perhaps?) Even if Janice can't take a vocal solo and even if Animal doesn't growl, we've still got the puppets, plus John Kennedy as Dr. Teeth, Jerry Nelson as Floyd, and Dave Goelz as Zoot. That should be enough for now. And maybe Janice and Animal can get instrumental solos.

--For that matter, Jerry Nelson's characters have gotten a lot of short shrift over the past decade. Let's see Floyd in a prominent role, and also have some featured scenes with Robin and even Fozzie's mom, okay? I miss these characters, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

--As for Kevin Clash: hmm. Still don't know what needs to be done with this guy. He's a brilliant performer who gives life to Elmo, arguably the most famous Muppet in the world right now after Kermit. And yet none of his TMS characters can register on the public?s consciousness. We've given Clifford plenty of chances, and he'll probably be in the movie and the series. But he's a comic hero like Kermit or Rowlf, not a completely wacky character like Fozzie or Gonzo, and after all this time he still hasn't found his "hook." Nothing personal against Clifford; he can still hang around, but let's try to find another character for Kevin to be his "star" character. Maybe Polly the Lobster needs to be given another shot? Of course, there's also the possibility that Kevin could inherit some of Frank's roles, which I have no problem with. We'll see, I guess.

--Mo the Frackle. OK, when they introduced this character on Family Feud, it was just to fill in for performers and characters who couldn't be there. But I found him more funny than most of the other characters a lot of the time. I think the writers have something to explore here.

--Unintentionally, the Muppet universe has wound up with very few strong female characters played by females. Here's hoping that trend gets reversed. Maybe Red Fraggle (Karen Prell) wanders out of a Fraggle hole one day and decides to visit with her new Muppet friends indefinitely? Maybe it's a little bit of a stretch, but hey -- what else are they doing with the Fraggles these days?

--Of course, not mentioned in this group are all the characters I expect I'll see anyway, like Kermit, Rizzo, Gonzo, Bunsen and Beaker, the Swedish Chef, Statler and Waldorf, etc., etc. Naturally, I want to see them, but I don't think it's something I have to really worry about. : -)

--There's a lot of difference of opinion on Muppets from Space, but one thing that almost everyone agrees on is that the boarding house segments were excellent. One thing that hasn't really been covered at length in other Muppet productions besides MFS is what everyday life is like for the Muppets, and I think there's definitely more potential here. Naturally, this would more likely be the format for the series as opposed to the movie. (Is this what Brian was thinking of with his proposed Muppet Sitcom a few years back?) I believe the original boarding house scenes were actually shot in someone's house, so naturally that couldn't be done over a weekly basis. They'd have to build a similar set, but I say it's worth it.

--Does the new Muppet sitcom format mean no guest stars? Jim always had humans interacting with the Muppet characters, and he felt that the few projects without them never worked out. So will we see the first regular human characters in the TMS universe interacting with the Muppets on a weekly basis the way Bob, Maria, Susan and Gordon interact with the Sesame Street characters now? Maybe Kermit hires a butler and a maid to help clean up at the boarding house, and each week's episode is about how they get somehow caught up in the crazy misadventures of the household's residents. OK, that's a little corny, but I'm just brainstorming here. What does everyone else think of this? (The other side of the coin is: I've never missed the humans in scenes where there are just Muppets around.)

I should note that the above are just suggestions and ideas. After having written several stories of my own, I know how hard it can be to balance old and new characters and still write a compelling story. I won't be picketing the Henson studios if the film and series don't turn out exactly like I hoped. But hey, if you don't say what you?d like to see, there's no way to get what you want!

So that's all I can think of for now. What would everyone else like to see? Feel free to respond to the points I've already made, or to comment on something else I haven't thought of yet.

[Warrick]

Hey,
I would love to see Scooter and Janice brough back, Even if Janice just does solo numbers !

And ofcourse the rest of the Electric Mayhem, Maybe even Lips !

I think Clifford should stay, He is a main member of the Muppet family.
Its hard to believe but he has been around for 13 years already !
And i think another great Muppet that Kevin performs is Leon, From The Jim Henson Hour .

See ya

[Fozzie Bear]

After much discussion with my rubber chicken, we have decided to come to the conclusion that we most certainly do agree with all that you said.

Me? I wish they would concentrate MORE during the upcoming projects on the already set of characters, including Clifford, Johnny Fiama, and who/whatever else, and play off of them for a while instead of coming up with new characters. I think they DO need to voice Janice and Animal, and if either voice is at least close enough I'll be happy...Bill's Rowlf was dead-on to me; Brian needs to deepen his voice for the Newsman then that's great! Johnny and Sal are a team, and I think that needs more exploration, and there were plenty of characters on The Jim Henson Hour and Muppets Tonight that could make decent comebacks.

I DO want to see more interaction with Jerry Nelson's characters now, and more use of Jim and Richard's characters.

Now would be a great time to reintroduce female characters to the cast from years' past, or create new ones and get Karen Prell and others a job back with the JHC! They're great performers.

And, of course, I'm always available. I'm a heckuva great puppeteer, and single. Ladies, take your pick!

FOZ

[Beauregard]

Hi,

I hope they Beauregard gets to be in the Christmas special and the new Muppet series. And Janice, Dr teeth the Electric Mayhem, Sweetums, who's he performed by now?, also I'd like to see the Sweedish Chef, Bork Bork, Miss Piggy, Of Course, don't forget Gonzo!, Scooter, and maybe Rizzo.
:cool:
Bye for now,
Beauregard

[dwmckim]

I'd guess more characters for Kevin is a given - since Clifford was such a huge presence on Muppets Tonight, it didn't give Kevin much of a chance to develop any other major characters...so now that Clifford won't be the lead, they can work on getting some new characters for Kev...and given his strengths with character development, there could be some new break-out stars.

I'd like to see a congruency of previous Muppet history - like Kermit having to attend to stuff at The Muppet Theatre and then called upon to deal with something at the KMUP studios - at least acknowledging their existence and having them in the background or consciousness.

One of the main problems w/ Muppets Tonight was not that they used so many new characters per se, but rather they put TOO much emphasis on them right away - and that was amplified by the shows airing in a different order than how they were produced...with a few weeks of its debut, the classic characters were almost non-existant in some episodes and there was too much focus on characters that seemed like they were being thrust on us before we could really care about them.

More of a careful mix between the newer and the classic characters should fix this faux pas.

[Fozzie Bear]

Originally posted by Beauregard
Sweetums, who's he performed by now?

John Henson.

[Beauregard]

Yer,

I knew it was a Henson didn't know which.

Thanks,
Beauregard

[dan]

First of all, I really love the Muppets. I want to be clear on that. Secondly, I'm very excited about the new series. But I am a bit concerned. Lately I've been watching some Muppets Tonight episodes on tape and I gotta say, that show had some problems. There was no interesting interaction between the characters. Not having Kermit in charge was an absolute disaster.

I want to quote to you something here from the "OF Muppets and Men" book about Kermit being in charge of the Muppet Show and why it was manditory:
Jerry Juhl said this "People tend to think that Kermit is just a straight man, but he is much more than that. He relates to the other characters on many different levels. More important, they HAVE to relate to him. Without Kermit, they don't work. Nothing could happen without him. The other characters do not have what it takes to hold things together. Kermit does have that ability, but at the same time he understands the others,he cares for them. The fact is that Kermit loves anarchy but is able to impose just enough discipline to stop things from falling apart. No one else can help him because none of the other characters knows how. Thats why he gets frazzled, because it all comes down to him. He is the one who has given them their chance. Without him, the show couldn't exist."

And on Muppets Tonight, he pretty much didn't exsist. He performed in numbers and stuff, but that isn't what Kermit was ment for. Kermit playing second fiddle to another muppet doesn't work. I love how Jerry Juhl broke it down, and hes 100% right. Kermit MUST be in charge.

Also, I hate Clifford with a passion.
I thought Kevin at the fest was brilliant and quick witted, and I hope he finds more characters to do. To me, Clifford is almost supposed to be another Floyd. But man, let me tell you, Floyd is just about the coolest cat of all time. Clifford bites. Seriously, is Clifford cool? If someone out there think Clifford is cool I'd really like to know why.

Bill's characters are great. Sal is great.
I hope I never ever see Andy and Randy pig again ( even though their designs were really nice) they are sooooooooo annoying.

We need Piggy and Fozzie back in major roles and I miss Scooter, Rowlf and the Electric Mayhem like crazy.

Theres all my hair brained muppet loving veiws for the moment. I hope the spies are listening..:)

[Drtooth]

I do know that Piggy will be in the new show. WHat I want to see is The Electric Mayhiem, Scooter, Rowlf the Dog, and maybe even Elliot Shag or Baby Sinclair (It didn't have to be probable, Just who I'd like to see!)

[Electric Mayhem]

I want as many of the Muppets as possible, of course!!

Also, I'd like to see them carry on their tradition of celebrity guests in some way. I think this brings in even casual viewers who normally might not watch, and it's fun to see how the Muppets interact with the celebs & how the celebs react to them!!

[Fozzie Bear]

Like I said before, and I'm 100% unanimous in this decision (LOL!): They have great characters from the past they can still use! (Wonder if THEY thought of that??)

I agree, Fozzie needs a comeback, and if the other guys are too afraid to do it...they can call me!! I'll give them my phone number...again.

FOZ

[Drtooth]

More FOzzie, More Gonzo! More Beaker! More More More!!! And some others I forgot!:cool:

[pezbalubah]

I agree that Rowlf, Scooter, and The Electric Mayhem need to be brought back to be main characters again. For the TV show they should have guests but if it's not a variety show, they can have them visit the Muppet's house like they're friends, and maybe work in musical guests like having them come over to jam with the Electric Mayhem or having the Electric Mayhem open up for bands at concerts (and there can be scenes backstage). If anybody's seen the Chris Issak show, it can be something like that, except with Muppets and without the naked women. I can totally imagine Green Day interacting with the Muppets, (Tre Cool, the drummer of Green Day has said that Animal is his drummer idol). As far as Clifford, he should be a minor character and not in charge as he was in Muppets Tonight. I never saw Muppets at WDW, what did Clifford do in the Electric Mayhem? I certainly hope they never make Clifford rap for the Mayhem.

[dan]

If Clifford raps for the Electric Mayhem, there is going to be no coming back. I will have to write off the muppets and just watch the old shows and movies.

That would be an absolute nightmare for me. They need to keep Clifford out of the band. There is no room for him.

[Gonzo]

The only MT characters I want to see any more of are Johnny Fiama, Pepe, and possibly Sal. I found Bobo to be very unfunny. Same with Phil Van Neuter, same with Seymour...

Out of Janice and Scooter, I'd rather see Janice revived.

Rowlf is a must-have.

I'd love to see Jerry's characters again, especially Floyd, Robin, and Camilla....I'd love to see Gonzo re-teamed with Camilla, and have a Rizzo-Pepe team-up more often. Gonzo's perpetual pairing with Rizzo has separated him from the rest of the Muppet fam.

More of Miss Piggy. Bring her back. Make her the diva we all know she is. And maybe give her some sort of assistant or ingenue, more prominent than Annie Sue, to be a new female character.

And make my Main Frog the host/center of the chaos.

Quinnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Fozzie Bear]

Aw, now; Clifford is okay, but he needs to be kind of like Floyd, who doesn't really say much, and when he does it's important. I liked his role in Muppets From Space, he wasn't trying to be "all that" and certainly shouldn't be taking Kermit's role. I think nowadays that Steve has got more of the "Jim Kermit" in place that we'll see TONS more Kermit involved in the show, but keep in mind that these folks perform tons of puppets in different productions, and so we'll have to excuse their brief and minor abscences. Rap works okay in songs, and I hear those songs on the radio. I doubt seriously that JHC will allow any kind of rapping that promotes violence or sexual inuendoes that you sometimes hear blaring from the vehicles next to you at the red lights, but sometimes Rap works...however, Clifford is more raggae in my mind, and I think they should stick him there, or with funk-rock. And I'm not against seeing Lips back, either.

But, that's just me.
FOZ

[DrGoshposh]

I have to disagree with you Dan on the whole Clifford issue.

I love Clifford, and think he is a good show of Kevin's abilities as a comedic performer, and a creator. I think the problem that most people have with him around here are problems with the whole series of Muppets Tonight! The show didn't really know what it was before going on the air. I think they were afraid to put Steve's Kermit in the same role as Jim's Kermit (since, indeed, the way the character works in the context of the show, had a lot to do with the way things were Jim ran the company -- a fun-loving leader trying to keep control in this sea of madness, and frequently getting caught up in the madness himself). They turned to a strong performer and a decent character, but they didn't really have it figured out how it would all work together. That is why I think people hate Clifford. (Of course since I like him, I just may be blind to what others hate.)

As for the show, I was thinking recently, since part of the beauty of the Muppets had to do with the fact that the on-screen relationships of the characters had a lot to do with the behind-the-scenes dynamic. With the Henson-Oz relationship, you had the guy in charge (Jim) paired with his comic genius friend (Frank). This duo led the Muppets. My thought was to create a really great leading character for Brian Henson (the guy in charge) and pair him with some of the pre-existing character of Bill Baretta (his comic genius friend). Let this team drive and define the Muppets for a whole new generation. I don't quite think any pre-existing Henson-Baretta teaming would work (though I love all of them). A new Henson character would have to be devised. I always saw Brian as the reluctant leader (or at least that would be a good caricature of him), and I think that’s the kind of leader the Muppets need. This dynamic that worked so well between Henson and Oz, and it could be the ticket to restoring a sense of direction to the Muppets.

My plan would mean they would have to abandon classic characters in order to develop this new team, so it probably wouldn't be too popular among fans or the Henson brass.

Anyhow, that was my idea. I’m looking forward to what the come up with.

Scott

[dan]

Yeah, I miss Gonzo and Camilla too. I hope Jerry gets super involved as well. Floyd is one cool cat. Rizzo and Pepe does seem like a good team.

[Jackie]

Oh i find Bobo to be TREMENDOUSLY funny!!!

"Jalepenos, Jalepenos, gettin my friend some Jalepenos!"

hehehe

[dwmckim]

...and i would definately be a member (if not the president) of the More Dr Phil Fan Club!

[Cindy Chapman]

Originally posted by dwmckim
...and i would definately be a member (if not the president) of the More Dr Phil Fan Club!

D.W., I now nominate you as President of the Dr. Phil Van Neuter fan club. I, Cindy, will be your first official member. ;) Dr. Phil is hilarious!! Go Brian!

Now it is time for the Dr. Phil official chant!
Eggy Noggy, Eggy Noggy...

[Chilly Down]

And so many too. Someone (Foz, perhaps?) said they'd like to see some of the more obscure characters back, like Leon from JHH. While I like some of those obscure characters too, I doubt we'll see many of them back in a major role. We didn't even see Leon in any of the movies or MT. Heck, he was gone even before the Disney World special! I think they'll stick to the popular characters as well as creating some new ones, and I'm OK with that...as long as they throw in the occasional background cameo.

Someone else (sorry! so many posts) said they disliked Clifford as the host of MT, and quoted Jerry Juhl from OM&M saying how Kermit needs to be the head of everything. I'm totally in agreement that Clifford didn't quite work as host and that Kermit needs to be featured in a much bigger way. However, in defense of the MT writers, it should be noted that in Jerry Juhl's interview with D.W. on this website, Jerry applauded them for their decision. He said it felt natural for Kermit to be moving into more of a supervisory position. That doesn't mean I want more Clifford and less Kermit. That just means the writers can't have been too far off base if even Juhl supported them.

I loved Dr. Goshposh's idea about having a strong Brian character with Bill as the sidekick, and with new characters as opposed to their pairings on MT. However, I would definitely like the Classic Muppets to be a big part of the new production. I think those characters still have a lot of life left in them yet.

Whew! That's all from me for now, I think.
:) Anyone else have thoughts, opinions, etc.?

[marinaNmuppets]

Hi i am new! I watched The Muppet Movie yesterday (again) and it just made me wanna see the old muppets in the new show much more than before! My personal favorite chacter is scooter and there is no doubt in my mind that that guy should be in the new show. The people who make this show shouldn't even have to think twice about letting kermit host the show he is the main reason the first show was so great. And if nobody understands how great the old characters are to this show then they should definetly read "The Mupppet Show:Of Muppets and Men" i think that is the name! I am only 15 years old but i still got to see the muppet show reruns and it was the greatest show ever made and i know alot of people would be mad if this show was remade now but i would love to see all the old characters doing the same kinda of show as before! And there defintelty has to be a great show theme as was before on the mupppet show!

[Fozzie Bear]

Hiya Marina!!

Welcome to MC, and welcome to the family!!

FOZ

[Chilly Down]

Hi, Marina! Welcome to the forum!

Scooter is certainly a great character, and I'd like to see more of him as well. However, that may be difficult, as his original performer, Richard Hunt, passed away several years ago, and they haven't yet found a suitable replacement. Adam Hunt performed Scooter's one line from Muppets from Space, and Matt Vogel voiced Scooter in the Muppet RaceMania video game for PlayStation, but we have yet to see any sign that either of these replacements are intended as permanent. So we'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

To everyone:

Well, the latest word buzzing through the grapevine is that the new Muppet series may be a variety show after all -- in fact, it may be the New Muppet Show so heavily discussed from a couple of years back. (See Luke's thread "Fox Muppet Show info.")

What does everyone think of this? My reaction is slightly mixed. On the one hand, the Muppet Show Live was one of the best things the Henson company has ever done. And no attempts to "modernize" the series have been successful, so maybe a back-to-basics approach is best. On the other hand, I was actually just starting to get used to the boarding-house idea. And I'm wondering whether or not the audience will take note or if they'll lump new episodes of the classic Muppet Show in the same category as Jim Henson Hour or Muppets Tonight.

It seems like some modernization is almost a must. They can't simply sing old vaudeville tunes anymore. But we've seen what happened when it was modernized too much. The Muppet Central control center in The Jim Henson Hour seemed just to frighten or confuse viewers. (Jim was just way ahead of the curve as usual. These days, all-CGI backgrounds are the order of the day.) Muppets Tonight seemed like a better approach...but without Kermit at the center or Frank's characters on a regular basis, the audience lost touch.

So...could a new Muppet Show set in a TV studio with Kermit at the center and a new performer(s) playing Piggy and Fozzie, etc. ... could that take off? (From the clips I've seen of The Fantastic Miss Piggy Show, this might be a good example of what it would look like.) Or maybe even set in the classic Muppet Theater with just a few TV monitors around to help make the transitions. (The Muppets Celebrate Jim Henson was a prime example of this.)

What does everyone else think? I'm very intriuged watching this show take shape, myself...

[Fozzie Bear]

HIYA PAL!!

Well, here's my take on this right here:

Bring back the Henson, Hunt, Oz characters, and I betcha they can do WHATEVER they want to do. These are the "Muppets" that we all know, love and miss; and if Goelz and Nelson's characters aren't there, then it's a miss-out, too. I am back to what I said before, I see no need for new characters, just give us back the ones we love. I'm not against Dr. Phil, Sal, Pepe, Johnny, or any of those...I'm all for them. Just that we need the old characters back.

You mentioned the boarding house. All of those who lived in the boarding house should certainly participate on the show.

Folks don't like the idea, but heck yeah Lips and Clifford, put them in the band, BUT give Janice, Dr. Teeth, and Floyd (of course Zoot and Animal) enough to say and do as well!

We've toyed around with this before, but I can see the dark tv screen suddenly opening up as a creeking door, and our faves (Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, Gonzo, Animal, Rizzo, Pepe, Floyd) all standing in the doorway with the brightness of the outside shining in behind them, Kermit flips a switch, and they're back backstage at the old theater.

Kermit: Huh? Look at this. It's as clean as the day we left it.
Fozzie: Wonder how this could have happened?
(a shuffling in the corner)
Kermit: Wha? Look out!
Beauregard: Oh! Hi, Mr. Frog! Where've you been? Nobody's shown up for work for the past 20 years!
Kermit: Beauregard! What are you doing in here?
Beau: Somebody locked me in.
Kermit: Wait a minute! Gonzo, didn't I ask you to check everywhere before we left here?
Gonzo: Yeah, you did; but I guess I forgot to check the bathrooms. (eyes widen) OH NO!!
(Gonzo goes running to the ladies' bathroom and throws the door open.)
Gonzo: Camilla!!
Camilla: (attacking Gonzo) Bawk bawk bawk!!!

Then, that explains why we haven't seen those two in a while LOL! Not sure of the continuity there with past productions, but just some example for the heckuvit!

Then, they bring in the TV cameras and the band sets up and off we go.

Yep, I hope they do something good, but to heck with new characters, we saw how the good ole characters perform so well with the new characters we have already, no need to make new ones.

Oh, and wasn't Bunsen a riot "twiddling" the ear of Dr. Phil?? LOL!

Twiddlingly yours,
FOZ

[pezbalubah]

I agree they need more of the old characters and less of the newer ones. There's really no need for new new characters, the newer ones (Pepe, Sal, Johnny, Bobo, Van Neuter, etc.) aren't that well known to the public in the first place so adding a bunch of new ones will lose people even more. When the general public think of the Muppets they think of Kermit, Piggy, Gonzo, Fozzie, Rowlf, Animal, and Scooter... Those are the characters that need to be the main focus, but the rest should still be in there. Bring back the Mayhem, Sweetums, Rowlf, Scooter, and Beauregard! And if Frank Oz isn't gonna do the show, then they need replacements for ALL of his characters!

[dan]

Hey I agree with you almost 100%. But what would the reasoning be behind adding Clifford to the band? They don't really need more members. I mean whats he going to play? The triangle?
I did like the small amount of rooms on the Muppet Show as oposed to Muppets Tonight. On Muppets Tonight there were several times when I didn't know where we were or what floor we were on.
And if I were in charge, the first thing I would do is bring back all the old Muppets. Maybe the first episode they could all be at Clifford's funeral. (ha-ha) Hey if theres anyone who can put the "fun" in "funeral, its the Muppets!

[frogboy4]

Characters I'd like to see:

All of the classics and some new ones, of course. I was offended when too many of the classic Muppets were shoved in the background of Muppets Tonight and I think others were too. Rowlf, Scooter and Janice need to come back with new voices. They are more than just fan faves, they are popular with non-fans too. They could bring in Tug for Clash to perform. He's already built and he did perform him once in a bit supposedly. I just think Tug has lots of character. As for Miss Piggy and Fozzie Bear, well if Oz doesn't want (or have the time) to perform them, recast them. It just isn't right with these characters passing through - they are major players.

Plotlines I'd like to see:

I want to see the Muppets get out into the real world. We have seen them stuck into soundstages way too much these days. They need a little sunshine and they seem funnier out in public. It looks like Greg the Bunny has beaten them to that punch, but the Muppets have and will do it better.

Where it should be:

They have tried to make the Muppets too trendy in the past to disasterous results. They need to be updated some, but they also need to be depicted as the classic pop icon veterans that they are. I think people would respond with more attention and respect. Be true. That works best. I would like to see them in their daily lives off hours from performing in the old Muppet theater. Maybe even in regular jobs too. I don't want to see them putting on a show, I want to see all the stuff around that. The backstage bits were some of the best parts of TMS. My main point is that I want to see them outside of the theater for the most part.

Just my ideas.

[Bean Bunny]

Please bring back me, Bean Bunny.

I am so cute!

[frogboy4]

You know, right when I was getting used to Bean he just disappeared. I hope he comes back too.

[Chilly Down]

Kev: That's definitely a neat plot. We'll see what happens, I guess.

Pez: "Kermit, Piggy, Gonzo, Fozzie, Rowlf, Animal, and Scooter" -- you got it, man! That's the main group. I hope that's what we'll see myself.

Dan: Clifford briefly appeared as a member of the Electric Mayhem in the Disney World special. I forgot what instrument he played in that. I thought the "triangle" comment was funny, but I should note with some irony that Crazy Harry actually DID play the triangle with the band in the closing credits of the early episodes.

Jamie: Lots of really good ideas. But who's Tug?

All: Something else we ought to consider -- should the new show have a laugh track? TMS and MT both had laugh tracks, but they were both shows set with a "live" audience. JHH didn't have a laugh track...but then look how quickly that went away. But now lots of comedy shows (most of them on Fox, too) don't have a laugh track and they're quite successful. Jim may have just been ahead of the curve again. But then they didn't use a laugh track sometimes on MT and those moments felt especially empty. Hmm. I know, I'm talking in circles...but I'm stumped here. What's everyone else thinking?

[Chilly Down]

Kev: That's definitely a neat plot. We'll see what happens, I guess.

Pez: "Kermit, Piggy, Gonzo, Fozzie, Rowlf, Animal, and Scooter" -- you got it, man! That's the main group. I hope that's what we'll see myself.

Dan: Clifford briefly appeared as a member of the Electric Mayhem in the Disney World special. I forgot what instrument he played in that. I thought the "triangle" comment was funny, but I should note with some irony that Crazy Harry actually DID play the triangle with the band in the closing credits of the early episodes.

Jamie: Lots of really good ideas. But who's Tug?

Bean: Yes, your namesake really was cute. Here's to seeing more of him.

All: Something else we ought to consider -- should the new show have a laugh track? TMS and MT both had laugh tracks, but they were both shows set with a "live" audience. JHH didn't have a laugh track...but then look how quickly that went away. But now lots of comedy shows (most of them on Fox, too) don't have a laugh track and they're quite successful. Jim may have just been ahead of the curve again. But then they didn't use a laugh track sometimes on MT and those moments felt especially empty. Hmm. I know, I'm talking in circles...but I'm stumped here. What's everyone else thinking?

[Crazy Harry]

Well I for one am thinking about how annoying it is when people post the same message twice. I'm sure it was an accedent though.

[frogboy4]

Tug is the purple Little Muppet Monster originally voiced by Richard Hunt, but apparently voiced by Clash in some TV spot. He's very classic Muppety-looking and the characters were meant to be linked to The Muppet Show.

[Fozzie Bear]

I don't know why so many folks hate Clifford so bad. I think he's cool; just shouldn't be up front in place of the classics. Yeah, Bean Bunny could be out there again, certainly so.

I agree with Frogboy, I think that their daily lives like in Muppets From Space, in the boarding house and all that, is cool. I'd like to see more of that.

Great thread, Chilly!

FOZ

[frogboy4]

I gotta chime in here about Clifford.

He was in a few projects here and there, but received his big introduction in Muppets Tonight where he welcomed us by saying,"...I'm your homey made of foamy." :eek: I found that statement so tacky that he almost didn't recover in my eyes. He eventually grew on me and I do like him now. He's not the best character, but he makes a good secondary cast member. He is also a beautifully crafted pupet and purple too! I think that some of the rap placed on him was from angry fans that saw him as Kermit's replacement. This, I am sure, will not happen again. Now he can just be a cool purple guy in the background with a one-liner or two. Would that be called a two-liner?

[marinaNmuppets]

I really liked that idea about them coming back to the old studio i would absolutley love to see that!I really wish i wasn't so impatient b/c all this talk about the show really gets me excited! But I know the wait will be worth it b/c any thing the muppets do is amazing!:D does any body know the title yet? o and i kinda was wandering if it is going to have guests on the show and who do you guys think should be on the show?

[Bean Bunny]

How about an adult Muppet version of Skeeter, Scooter's twin sister?

[Warrick]

When i first saw Muppets Tonight i was really angry and sad that it wasnt another 'Muppet Show'.
I was only 11, i thought The Muppet Show was just gonna start again.

but one thing i really despised about it was, Clifford !

He just came out of NOWHERE and took Kermit's place.
We didnt get The Jim Henson Hour in the UK, so i didnt know about him.

But then ofcourse he grew on me a bit, Then when i watched The Jim Henson Hour he became a favorite of mine!

They should keep him as he was in that show, He just comes on sometimes and says a few words, Other than that he stays in the band.

I think both 'Solid Foam' and 'The Electric Mayhem' could work on a new show.
But please DO NOT bring back that band from Muppets Tonight, Nice looking puppets, But definetely not one of THE Muppet Bands.

Well thats all i got !

see ya

[frogboy4]

I agree about the MT band. I didn't lile the puppets - except fro Zippidy-Zap. He should definitely return. Was he voiced by Bill? Plus Solid Foam's punk style is actually in style again these days! I wouldn't mind seeing them again - maybe in a battle of the bands episode.

[Warrick]

Not battle of the bands, Just as the second band.

Remember Animal and Zoot were normally apart of 'Solid Foam' !

And i remember seeing Dr Teeth wathcing them play once, Maybe he was their Manager or something ?

It could be the 'Electric Mayhem' doing older stuff, And 'Solid Foam' playing the newer punk stuff.

See ya

[Salmoto]

How about this: A secondary plot in which Clifford arranges musical acts, possibly at the KMUP studios. They're broadcasting radio from there, Clifford is the DJ and the Electric Mayhem would trade places with Solid Foam for the instances when they don't have a musical guest like Green Day. I think that fits in most of the ideas people have had there recently and it'd allow for lots of musical numbers.

I think it's possible for Clifford to be part of the main group of muppets, or at least the second-string group. The way he was used in "Muppets From Space" seemed appropriate for me: Hanging out with either Kermit or Pepe and acting as the occasional go-between for gags, for example.

Clifford: Yo, Kerm, Were you waiting for some painters to show up?
Kermit: Yes, I was.
Clifford: Well, they're leaving, Animal bit one of them.
(I know this isn't a direct quote.)

So probably there'd be moments where he interacts with the Muppets early in the show and then he says, "Well I gotta get going," and head off to do his usual thing. That's Clifford for me.

[pezbalubah]

This is the first time I've heard of Solid Foam, I'm not that familiar with the characters of The Jim Henson Hour, just the parts of the show they use to show on Nickelodeon. What did Clifford play in Sold Foam? I just saw the Muppets at WDW the other day for the first time and Clifford played the tamborine (and a xylophone type thing) and sang. The radio station idea sounds cool, or even if it's a music TV channel, then they can have a good amount of non-music programs as well. (like MTV)

[Drtooth]

I just hope that they leave Andy and Randy pig at home. They could have worked, but somehow, they just didn't!!

[Salmoto]

Perhaps if they retained their cutesy-wootsy voices from the "Muppet-Time" segments. It would have been fun seeing Sam the Eagle's segments on conservativeness ruined by two cute little piglets.

[frogboy4]

I thought they were funny, but a little of that goes a long way. They were a one-joke duo that was way overexposed. I'd like to see them in the background (maybe they can live with Clifford) but I don't think they need to be featured as main or secondary cast.

[dwmckim]

...are definately the "Elmo" of the Classic Muppet world...when used sparingly they're really quite funny characters - they're terrific foils for Sam and the Hardy Pigs boy sketch w/ Heather Locklear was classic! But when the main focus is on them like in the John Goodman episode it's just way WAY too much!

[Salmoto]

What annoyed me the most was almost everything they said was in tandem.

What annoyed me the second most was that Piggy absolutely loved them even though they were blithering idiots. Piggy usually has little tolerance towards the kind of buffonery that her own nephews were responsible for. Sure she's not Statler and Waldorf, but she has something of a hard time dealing with the more absurd Muppets like Gonzo.

[dwmckim]

I don't think Piggy was really that affectionate toward them....

Muppet Classic Theatre: This was more of a "play" before it established A&R were Piggy's nephews. But even within the context of this show, she seemed so much above them - wondering if they could even possibly be related.

Michelle Pfeiffer: Piggy gets A&R a job on the show...not so much out of family ties but basically to unload them on Clifford and get them out of her hair! Note how overjoyed she is when she leaves the room and it's worked!

Garth Brooks: Annoyed that not only did they butt in on her act,but also put her in physical danger.

Whoopi Goldberg: Could not WAIT to get out of the limo with them. After being fit to be hog tied, she DOES tie the hogs down! At the end of the show, she'd rather walk to the airport than have to deal with A&R's shenanigans again.

...and that's really all the main interaction MP has had with the twosome...the only other thing...and this might have been in the back of your mind when you made the post...especially since this was in a movie, it's available on DVD/VHS for easy viewing whereas the Muppets Tonight episodes have yet to be commercially released...was the photo of Piggy and Andy & Randy in Muppets From Space where Gonzo is noticing all the other Muppets family portraits. Given the contrast between Gonzo's lonely silhoette shotand the other family pictures, that probably made that moment/picture seem more sentimental than it really is. She's pretty much having to keep them under control, restraining them - but Miss Piggy being the professional poser that she is, at least knows how to smile and give her all to the camera when the shot was being taken.

So altogether, i'd say MP DOES pretty much hold them with the same disdain that she does other Muppets.

[Fozzie Bear]

DW...

Yeah, I agree, I have many family members who do the same things to me: tie me up, run away, shut the door...

[Salmoto]

What about musical numbers? If the Muppets do a sitcom, how will they fit them in?

[Fozzie Bear]

THAT'S RIGHT!!

Muppets are well known for their Musical Numbers!!

Then again, they did many episodes of The Honeymooners as musicals...

It's the Muppets, they'll fit it in somehow.

[Drtooth]

I don't know about you, but I'd like to hear more Electric Mayhiem covers of old songs. Especially:
Bohiemian Rhapsody (since they're on Fox, I bet they'd have no problem with the line "Mama just killed a man...")
Cover of the Rolling Stone (I can just picture Floyd singing this, sounds like he does anyway)
Mama's got a Squeeze Box (Endless possibilities here, use your imagination)
Devil went down to Georgia
and many others I could think of late at night after I wake up from an odd dream sequence. That's how I get my ideas!

[Crazy Harry]

I don't think we need to worry about musical numbers in a sitcom. The Simpsons do them all the time.

Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Guttenburg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cavefish of thier sight? Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!

[Salmoto]

Every time the Simpsons break into song, I frown a little bit. The worst one was the episode where the parents and kids sang a modified version of "What's the matter with kids?" regarding the issue of city curfews. Even though the writing is very clever and fits the Simpsons' social commentative theme, it seems out of place to make a cartoon with such a realist attitude to start singing out of nowhere. It's like Alf Clausin wants to get paid more.

What? This is a Muppet message board? That explains why 3/4ths of my screen name is that of a monkey's......

I looked back at previous message and realizrd that my idea of having Clifford arrange music would be a prime oppertunity to have musical acts of any variety. So there.

[frogboy4]

I completely disagree. I love the Simpson's musical numbers. Actually, until now I had never heard anyone not liking them. To each their own, though.:)

[Fozzie Bear]

We break into musical numbers here all the time...

Hmm...I feel a song coming on...

FOZ

[Salmoto]

Please don't let it be "Hello Dolly...."

[Fozzie Bear]

Hello, Dolly! [ Top ]

Dolly
Hello, Harry
Well, Hello Louie
It's so nice to be back home where I belong
You're looking swell, Manny
I can tell, Danny
You're still glowin', you're still crowin'
You're still goin' strong
For the band's playin'
One of my old favorite songs from way back when
So bridge that gap, fellas
Find me an empty lap, fellas
Dolly'll never go away again

Waiters
Hello Dolly!
Well, Hello Dolly!
It's so nice to have you back where you belong
You're looking swell, Dolly,
We can tell, Dolly,
You're still glowin', you're still crowin'
You're still goin' strong.
We feel the room swayin'
For the band's playin'
One of your old fav'rite songs from 'way back when

Dolly
So here's my hat fellas
I'm stayin' where I'm at, fellas

Waiters
Promise you'll never go away again

Dolly
I went away from the lights of Fourteenth Street
And into my personal haze
But now that I'm back in the lights of l4th Street
Tomorrow will be brighter than the good old days

Waiters
Those good old days
Hello, Well Hello Dolly
Well hello, hey look there's Dolly

Dolly
Glad to see you Hank, let's thank my lucky star

Waiters
Your lucky star

Dolly
You're lookin' great, Stanley
Lose some weight, Stanley?
Dolly's overjoyed and overwhelmed and over par

Waiters
I hear the ice tinkle
See the lights twinkle
And you still get glances from us handsome men
So...

Dolly
Golly gee, fellas
Find me a vacant knee, fellas

Waiters
Dolly'll never go away again

(A DANCE follows Dolly and the waiters)

Waiters
Well, well hello, Dolly
Well hello, Dolly
It's so nice to have you back where you belong
You're lookin' swell, Dolly
We can tell, Dolly
You're still glowin', you're still crowin'
You're still goin' strong
I hear the ice tinkle
See the lights twinkle
And you still get glances from us handsome men
So...

Dolly
Wow wow wow, fellas

Waiters
Hey, Yeh!

Dolly
Look at the old girl now, fellas

Waiters
Wow!

All
Dolly'll never go away again.

[Chilly Down]

Wow. You folks are all making this a great thread so far. Thanks! (I'm just gonna leave the whole "Hello Dolly" thing alone.) ;-)

Just a few comments since the last time I got to post:

Marina: No title yet for the show. If they follow the variety format, it may in fact be called The New Muppet Show. The title The Muppets Present got a little bit of circulation last year, but again, that sounds like variety, so if they go sitcom, it would likely be called something different. Don't worry, you're at the right place for any new information that might come along. : -)

Frogboy: Thanks for telling me who Tug was. He'd make an intriguing addition. I'd like to hear what Kevin's version of the voice sounded like. And they could even change the personality a little if they wanted to -- appearing on three episodes of a quickly-cancelled Saturday morning show is about as obscure as Gonzo's debut as "Cigarbox Frackle" in The Great Santa Claus Switch.

Bean: It would be interesting to see if they included Skeeter. They should have Scooter back full-time too, though, if they're going to have Skeeter. Otherwise people might get confused! Another question that would need answering: would they find a female performer to do the voice, or would they get Howie Mandel back?

Sal: As for "what about the musical numbers" -- if there's a sitcom, there may not be any. There's kind of a mentality now that musicals are old-fashioned. Muppets from Space didn't feature any new songs; all they sang was just a little bit of "Celebration" at the end. Even the latest Disney cartoons don't have songs in them. I'm not necessarily saying I agree with it; I'm just saying that's the current trend. But if it's a variety show, naturally we won't have to worry about a lack of musical numbers, and even in the sitcom format the characters' lives would still very likely revolve around them being entertainers. I can definitely see the Clifford-as-manager idea as a likely scenario.

As for disliking the musical numbers on The Simpsons, I have to respectfully disagree. The Simpsons has never been an ultra-realistic comedy program like, say, Everybody Loves Raymond. It's always appropriately taken advantage of the fact that it's a cartoon when necessary to lampoon some element of popular culture. What ordinary sitcom could do a Halloween trilogy every year, in which any bizarre thing can happen or all of the characters could die or meet some other horrible fate? And yet those have been some of their funniest satirical moments. Thus, I loved the episodes where they spoofed Disney productions like "101 Dalmations" and "Mary Poppins." If they hadn't spoofed the songs, the show would have been missing something. And aside from the "curfews" episode that you mentioned, I think those are the only times they sang spontaneously. Every other time it's supposed to have been rehearsed, i.e. they're watching a Broadway show or something.

But that's just one guy's opinion.

Finally, to all: Hmm, no one commented on my laugh-track question. Does no one have a strong opinion on this either way? I guess I'd like there to be no laugh track if there's a sitcom, and if it's The New Muppet Show, it should have a laugh track just like the original. If it's a new variety show...well, the jury's still out on that one. Does anyone else have an opinion? Anyone? Anyone? ... Bueller? Bueller?

[frogboy4]

I would say yes to a laugh-track. I know they are a little obnoxious, but all network show have them. I remembering watching a few cable "sitcomesque" shows a couple years ago that went without the laughtrack and it just seemed strange. Just my thoughts.

Clifford as a manager is perfect. He'd be in the background like JP and not come out much, but we'll know he's there.

Howwie Mandel...eww. I just never liked him that much. If there were ever a Skeeter she'd be grown up and have a mature voice so anyone could be cast. I vote for Karen Prell! ;) I do agree that Scooter must come first (of course). Poor guy, I miss him.

I really hope this show makes a departure from the typical variety format. They did it in TMS, then in The Henson Hour, also in Muppets Tonight and now in this one? I'm ready for something different from them. The best mart of MT was the outakes anyway. More of that sort of Muppets being themselves and doing normal behind the scenes things intrigues me more than a show full of parodies. Sure, we can have some of those too, but I really want to see them do something fresh. I realy hope these rumors are wrong. I know that Greg really stole the Muppets' thunder, but I think they could to it better.

Glad you like the Tug idea. He was a very intresting-looking character.

[Salmoto]

I'm gonna get bopped for saying this.

I just re-watched "The great Muppet Caper" and Scooter seemed to have an extremely tiny role in that film. Perhaps Scooter had a big role in the Muppet Show, but his role in the Muppet movies only had him saying a few lines which were setups for the more flamboyant characters. I do think he should take a central role in the new series, after all, every group needs a straightman.

As for an adult Skeeter, her 'Muppet Babies' persona was basically someone who engaged in sibling rivalry with Scooter, and tried to steal the spotlight from Piggy. Her adult persona would be someone who's looking to become a big star and cajoles her stage manager brother to allow her to reach that status. Sonce many male puppeteers play female roles, whoever performs the new scooter just piches his voice an octive higher for Skeeter. Of course, it might be too much work for one puppeteer to play two characters who constantly have to be interacting with eachother.

[Chilly Down]

<<I would say yes to a laugh-track. I know they are a little obnoxious, but all network show have them. I remembering watching a few cable "sitcomesque" shows a couple years ago that went without the laughtrack and it just seemed strange. Just my thoughts.>>

Actually, Jamie, I'd have to disagree with you on that one. While laugh tracks were the trend for years and years, and the "dramadies" of the late 80's kinda fizzled, the no-laugh-track sitcom is actually catching on quite quick, especially on Fox. Malcolm in the Middle and The Bernie Mac Show are both hits, showing that the audience is willing to accept such a concept now. It's also (un)used on Grounded for Life, Greg the Bunny, and The Job. In fact, the new comedy shows that seem to get the most media attention are the ones sans laugh tracks. The Muppets might make themselves seem old-fashioned if they go with a laugh track. But that's just my thoughts, and amazingly, I have been wrong before! ;-)

I'm liking the idea of Tug the more I think about him. He'd be an interesting visual contrast to characters like Sal and Clifford (who contrast each other as well). In fact, Tug kind of looks more like a Sesame Street character than anything else, don't you think? (Not that that's a bad thing...)

Sal: No bops from me, man! Let's definitely see more of Scooter. I think you're right that it'd be too difficult for one performer to play both him and Skeeter, though. And it'd be necessary for them to be together a lot because of the whole sibling-rivalry thing. I guess I'm kind of in favor of a female taking over the role because of the aforementioned lack of strong female Muppet characters actually played by females. (OK, we've got Red and Skeeter for Karen now. Who else?) ;-)

[Salmoto]

Let's say Bunson now has a twin sister named Bunseen, who is a scientist with a crush on Dr. Phil, experiments on him and at times reduces him to flutters of "Meep, meep meep."

Ok, that was a joke, but it'd be funny at least once.

[Fozzie Bear]

Of COURSE they need a laugh track...how else is Fozzie gonna get any laughs???

FOZ
(Wait! What am I saying...?!)

[Salmoto]

Of course in the Muppet Show, Fozzie still didn't get a rise out of whomever was operating the laugh track. Poor guy can't even get a recording to laugh at him. Like a Jim Belushi with fur.

A laugh track is kind of needed with the Muppets, especially with all the corny jokes they put on the floor. Remember that whaen they removed the laugh tracks from the original Flintstones, the show just stopped being funny.