to those keeping track...

[beaker]

Ok all you obsessive compulsive hardcore Muppet palisades completists...very soon youll be having to deal with nearly 2 dozen figures/variants...now Ive seen posts on here and elsewhere about some people feeling compulsed to absoultely have every single variant. so here we go...

kermit
tux kermit
kermit industry in lunchbox
piggy
eb long hair piggy
dr. teeth
WW dr. teeth variant
bunsen
beaker w/ playset
VC beaker in box
mislabeled VC beaker in poly bag
inivisable industry giveaway beaker
fozzie MFS vanishing variant
vacation fozzie type a
vacation fozzie type b(toyfare only)
fozzie
gonzo stunt
gonzo eb exclusive w/ goggles
crazy harry
floyd
animal w/ playset
animal w/ blackshirt unproduced variant prototype
patrol fozzie unproduced prototype
rowlf resin sculpt prototype

so, if youre name is ken lilly you have access to 24 variants/figures. if your joe schmoe mc poster, you have access to less than half at this moment;)

so anyone still compulsed to have to have every single one?
better get a job at palisades!

[frogboy4]

I think it has been established that Patrol Fozzie would not be coming out this year and may take a few waves after that to reemerge. You also forgot about the Floyd repaint that will be short-packed in each case. Also - to be more specific, the Rowlf will come out in wave 3.

[beaker]

>>>I think it has been established that Patrol Fozzie would not be coming out this year and may take a few waves after that to reemerge. You also forgot about the Floyd repaint that will be short-packed in each case. Also - to be more specific, the Rowlf will come out in wave 3<<<

Yes, but didnt we spot Patrol Fozzie somewhere in a photo pic of Palisades' office. So he does exist, as does a sculpt of Rowlf. Hey, just trying to get into the crazed mentality of super ultra hardcore completism^_^ Aw, yes, the Floyd repaint. heh

[frogboy4]

But what does your list mean? We know what's coming up till wave three. :confused: Is it simply a list of wht has been shown?

[beaker]

>>>But what does your list mean? We know what's coming up till wave three. Is it simply a list of wht has been shown?<<<

My list is in reponse to those inevitable compulsive completists out there who must absolutely have every single Muppet Palisades figure out there. It was too illustrate how silly that notion is, as really only Ken and his staff truly have access to all available figures/prototypes.

[frogboy4]

Still don't get it. So it was a joke? :confused: I must be very blond :D

[beaker]

>>>Still don't get it. So it was a joke? I must be very blond<<<

Oh...no its a list of everything out there, kind of a point to show how impossible it is to be a true completist. Jamie, what's the number one thing on MC as of the last year? Non stop figures posting. So now that the collecting has begun, this list is to show just how much of a task it'd be unless your name ends in Lilly or Horn to have them all.

[Luke]

Originally posted by beaker
>>>Still don't get it. So it was a joke? I must be very blond<<<

Oh...no its a list of everything out there, kind of a point to show how impossible it is to be a true completist. Jamie, what's the number one thing on MC as of the last year? Non stop figures posting. So now that the collecting has begun, this list is to show just how much of a task it'd be unless your name ends in Lilly or Horn to have them all.

But Cory - most people here HAVE them all, well all the ones you mentioned that actually exist outside of the toy company. I think the non-stop figure posting has ensured that.

Luke
*also feeling blonde*

[frogboy4]

Ahhh. I get you. I draw the line right before the mislabeled Beaker. I just don't see it as part of the Palisades line. Just doesn't make much sense to me, but more power to the people who are paying for a label. LOL

[beaker]

>>>But Cory - most people here HAVE them all, well all the ones you mentioned that actually exist outside of the toy company. I think the non-stop figure posting has ensured that<<<

I'd have to disagree. A lot, including me still dont have any of the Beaker variants(and beaker being my fave character, heh)
Outside of the company there are still a few variants and such a lot of people still havent been able to get. Hopefully that will change with the collector's club tho!^_^

[Janice & Mokey's Man]

Originally posted by Luke
most people here HAVE them all

I'm proud to say I don't own one dang figure yet!

Really!

I don't!

LOL!!

I may buy Dr. Teeth, but not till I have $$$...can't buy stuff without it, ya know.

Of course I'll buy 1 of my 2 gals when they put her out, but till then, I don't think I'll buy very many. Then again, depends on how I feel when I see 'em in person.

[Luke]

Actually yeah, i just have two coming at a push from the first wave. I'll get another two from the second wave and probably one of the Fozzie variants. Basically i'm just getting the ones i REALLY like, whether thats the originals or variants etc. I'm not much into playsets (too expensive) but if one takes my eye i'll get it.

I just thought that with the amount of posts asking about the variants most people were trying to be completists. Thats why i didn't get the impossibility of it all. If you have the $$$ anythings possible right now.

I'm gonna try to get all the Osbourne figures at christmas though besides the chase ones.

[uncleduke]

I have been a toy collector for a while, and I hope Grail will back me up on this.
It is not part of the assortment unless it is mass produced and packaged.
Weird one of a kind mistakes, factory errors, and prototypes of unproduced figures, while neat to have, just are not consdidered part of the assortment.
If they were, the ones that did make it out to the mainstream like
Tux Kermit with no Hat
Beaker with Bloody Fingerprints on his back, and other factory mistakes would be included, since they are just as rare.

[beaker]

>>>If you have the $$$ anythings possible right now<<<

Then why dont I have that MV3D labcoat or unreleased MFS Zowie Entertainment playset that has been floating around collector markets? ^_^

[frogboy4]

OMG - someone get this boy a lab coat!

[beaker]

>>>I have been a toy collector for a while, and I hope Grail will back me up on this.
It is not part of the assortment unless it is mass produced and packaged.
Weird one of a kind mistakes, factory errors, and prototypes of unproduced figures, while neat to have, just are not consdidered part of the assortment<<<

youre righ ton mistakes and factory errors...those are just silly, and typical of some POTF collectors. Ive been a huge toy collector for 2 decades, so I have some background on collecting as well.
I think youre wrong tho on protoypes. Look at the indianna jones
figures. If youre a collector of those, youve gotta at least try and get ahold of those. OR what about Transformers? What hardcore
Trans fan hasnt dreamed of trying to get ahold of Unicron?
Heck...I SO want a freaking Dark Crystal prototype set! And if ya collect the 1990 simpsons figure line, youve gotta try to get the
krusty prototype. Any star wars fan will tell ya about rocket firing boba. the fact is, the most diehard of series like me with Muppets, protoypes are the holy grail.

[Luke]

Whats POTF ???????

[beaker]

>>>Whats POTF ???????<<<

luke, that would be power of the force, the pen-ultimate mother of all figure collecting market series over the last 25 years.

[grail]

I will indeed "back you up" on this point.

One person's mistake should NOT be another person's variant!

The problem (as I see it) is this:

Back when the Star Wars toys were at the peak of their popularity, they were putting out so much stuff, from so many different factories, that an overall QC was virtually impossible. This created a lot of different "variations" of the different figures. Then, in an effort to raise their (already inflated) prices, the dealers started calling these "variants" - toys that are made differently from what everybody else got. Now true collectors have a tendency to want to have the thing that "nobody else has", so this caused a frenzy that did NOT escape the attention of the toy companies...and this was really the birth of the exclusive.

Basically, they're based on people being greedy...they're just a mistake, they should be worth the same or LESS than the real thing, but almost never should they be worth more.

[frogboy4]

Very cool insight. American capitalism at its best. Gotta love it!

[beaker]

Ive never been one to consider facotry messups a 'variant'. YEah, I think the bulk of 'variant's origins come from star wars figures. However, then there is International, bootlegs, factory messups, etc. Why is a Revenge of the Jedi packaging Stormtrooper worth $300+ when its the SAME exact figure? who knows.

[uncleduke]

Originally posted by beaker
....Why is a Revenge of the Jedi packaging Stormtrooper worth $300+ when its the SAME exact figure? who knows.

Because it is not an error, it is an instance of a studio changing its mind in mid production.
If the first 1,000 Muppet series one were produced with the 25 year banner on them, and then Henson decided they did not want the toys to have that on the card, so the remaining 10,000 were produced sans anniversary logo, it is a change in the production run, and would be considered a variant, and would be worth more, and could this be any longer of a run-on sentence ?

[grail]

grammar? punctuation? a toy collector needs not these things...

*wishes he had a Yoda avatar about now...*

[uncleduke]

Originally posted by grail
grammar? punctuation? a toy collector needs not these things...

Apparently syntax isn't high on the list of priorities either:D

[grail]

only when writing an actual review...

it's seriously funny to watch me drafting a toy review. first i write it. then i check for spelling. then i find my grammatical errors. then i redraft, fixing those grammatical errors and usually changing the entire piece in the process. then i check for spelling/grammar errors again, by sending it by my fiancee, the Notre Dame english major...after she fixes it, i send it in to Marcus, who edits it for bad jokes and length (i tend to go on a bit).

thus a review is born...check this friday for He-Man...(but please don't go buy the toys first)

[frogboy4]

Is this a hint? Well, I'll probably stick to the Muppets and buy them all no matter what the rating, but they sould get good ratings anyway. And I do love reading the reviews to see what other people liked, what was over-looked etc. Cool stuff!

[grail]

yeah, that Bunsen review was the first one i did. the one for this week (which was actually for last week, but that's another story) is He-Man...the things are horrible. just plain bad...

there is a bright point, though...wait till you see the new rating system i'm using...

[ResidentLilly]

Yeah I never undertood the whole "my lightsaber is bigger than yours" thing with those early '95 releases of the POTF2 line. I mean, it is primarily a boys market...so...

But, I do wonder where it ends. To me, the Invisible Beaker and Lunchbox Kermit are not in the line. They were never offered at retail. Many people do though. I wonder what kind of reaction people will have to the wedding set? Will it make people mad they can't get it? Who knows?

I was hoping, and still am, that people don't look at the two colored Vatican Fozzie's (which is what I call them now internally) as must have for both. Some will I suppose, but the intent certainly wasn't to make you buy both...the intent was to offer a choice.

Interesting debate that will rage on for millenia I guess...

[grail]

i agree that they are not part of the line, and the whole "Kermit in Lunchbox" thing just makes my head hurt, but i can at least see where they're coming from...

to a lot of people, collecting is all about having what no one else does. even i'm victim to it sometimes ("Invisible" Space Ghost, Ash vs. Pit Witch, about 6 different Transformers after this weekend), that's what makes them so appealing. i have to admit, i want an invisible Beaker too...but i ain't paying ebay prices for it. i've got tons of toys, and while the Muppets are quickly becoming my favorites, i can do without ONE...especially one that, if a big deal hadn't been made about it, i wouldn't have known it existed. it's not like it was advertised or anything.

[grail]

BTW, if i remember the story correctly, part of the reason for the Star Wars "variants" was because Hasbro was using 3 different overseas factories...and we've all seen Ken's reaction to the factories...

(i wish they had a toy factory here in Indy...i would SO apply to work there...we've got Fundex, but they make board games...)

[beaker]

yeah i agree with ken, the mid to late 90's new potf2 'variants' were so lame...not variants, but subtle market changes.

for display purposes, i like to mix and match. i like to repiant figures sometimes...and i like to have regular teeth with black fedora and purple keyboard. with vacation fozzie...i like the blue shirt mediaplay one, but like the toyfare accessories better.

its funny tho. i bet when ken first started posting on mc, he never thought there would be sooooo many insanes amounts of questions about figures. wow.

[kansasteen14]

what is the Wedding set?

[Zack the Dog]

I like the green life perserver better.


I don't count the kermit lunch box or fully invisable beaker part of the line, i haven't even seen a photo of the full invisable beaker, anyone got a photo?

wait, will this happen to fozzie bear as well?
hey i wonder if the invisable hat can but placed on the regular fozzie?

Zack)Rowf the,hey i wonder if the invisable hat can be placed on the regular fozzie?well you can take his hat off and pretend;-)Dog.

[grail]

heh...

see Ken, the only people that realy know about those are the bunch here...and you know _I_ won't mention them to the outside world.

it's like i said about invisible Beaker, if they don't know the wedding figs exist, how can they want them? besides, you KNOW everyone who's getting a set...personally (well, she does at least, let's not forget how weddings work here). if any of them show up on Ebay, you'll have a guest list to start looking through to find the little SOB's...

[grail]

Invisible Beaker:

http://systems.figures.com/Features/index.html?show_article=35333&domain=figures.com&dom=fig&domain_id=4

let's hear it for figures.com!

[beaker]

>>>if any of them show up on Ebay, you'll have a guest list to start looking through to find the little SOB's...<<<

grail, with ebay...anythings possible! I mean the freaking muppet electric mayhem bus itself has been on ebay, so "lilly wedding exclusives" arent too impossible for a ebay showup. btw ken, congrats on getting married soon! Youll soon join the ranks of several prominent MC posters who are happily married.

[grail]

Originally posted by beaker
grail, with ebay...anythings possible! I mean the freaking muppet electric mayhem bus itself has been on ebay, so "lilly wedding exclusives" arent too impossible for a ebay showup.

the BUS?!?! vas?! in the immortal words of someone i know:

ME WANTEE

[beaker]

>>>let's hear it for figures.com!<<<

heck yeah it does! i love that site as a big time figure enthusist myself. gah! i so want a invisible beakie! i'd love to do a custom green matrix code variant like that one agent smith figure.

[grail]

why couldn't you just strip the paint off a regular or VC Beaker?

[frogboy4]

Actually, I do count the Invisible Beaker as a figure, but do not count the mis-packaging or the Lunchboxed Kermit as one. Just how I think of things.

[beaker]

>>>the BUS?!?! vas?! in the immortal words of someone i know:

ME WANTEE<<<

from 50's era muppet merchandise to that bus, ebay has been the spot. btw, for info on the bus check out 'rarities' udner muppets in the mc collectibles guide.

gosh, i can only IMAGINE whats in store when kermiatge.com opens. *the drooling shall begin soon i hope!*

[beaker]

>>>Actually, I do count the Invisible Beaker as a figure, but do not count the mis-packaging or the Lunchboxed Kermit as one. Just how I think of things.<<<

agreed. invisible beaker is a figure, lunchbox kermit and mispackaging is not a variant.

btw jamie, as of this post you are now only 500 posts ahead of me!^_^

[ResidentLilly]

I posted this on another site, but felt it was appropriate to post it here too...

It's funny, because people have been really commenting on the amount of variants or exclusives.

You have 5 actual figures in Series One:
Kermit
Piggy
Bunsen
Dr. Teeth
Beaker

You have 4 Variants:
Tux Kermit
Hair Down Piggy
Teeth Repaint
VC Beaker

Five regular figs, four variant figs.

Problem arises when people start considering the give aways and the errors as part of the line. It's not. Or at least that was not the original intent.

You have an error VC in a bag, a Kermit/lunchbox giveaway and an Invisible Beaker give away. Reason I don't count these is personal as a collector...heck even on the back of the new Fozzie one we have a pic that says "collect them all" that only shows the ones available for sale at retail. Just my opinion.

Anyway, take a look at a typical McFarlane release, although I don't know if he does this as much as he used to. Six figures, then he would do six repaints. Same figures for the most part, but higher ratio of regular figs to variants. Then occasionally release a give away or something of a figure possibly from that assortment.

Guess what I am getting at is that the only unusual thing about our situation is that the figures are more complicated variants, some involving TONS of sculpted parts, which makes them a little more choice I guess and maybe harder to keep track of because it isn't a repaint/slight resculpt line released all at the same time.

Anyway, Series 2 has five main figures:
Fozzie
Gonzo
Crazy Harry
Floyd
Animal

Series 2 has four variants:
Invisible Spray Fozzie
Vacation Fozzie
Floyd Repaint
EB Gonzo

(Black "T" Animal may reappear later since he was **** canned from SDCC, but his release won't be until Series 3 or after, and you all know the extra Foz was just a quick fix for the Animal fiasco...frikkin factories...)

Some count the two colors of Vaca Foz as a variant of a variant. Technically I guess it is, but I don't consider it to be. Don't get me wrong you can if you want. The intent there was to give you all a choice. Which color do you like best? The uber-completist may think they must have both, but you don't gotta. Same fig completely. IN fact, some uber-completists (and I do get it because I have done some uber-completing in the past) will buy the ToyFare Tux Kermit AND the TRU Tux Kermit simply because the ToyFare one has a sticker and the TRU one does not.

So it is much simpler than it appears. The "real" variants have not exceeded the number of actual figures, and the ratio will drop further as there will be NO variants in Series 3.

Does that help explain it a bit?

[kansasteen14]

so what are they?

[ResidentLilly]

What are what?

[grail]

Originally posted by kansasteen14
so what are they?

what are what?

[uncleduke]

Originally posted by ResidentLilly
....Anyway, take a look at a typical McFarlane release, although I don't know if he does this as much as he used to. Six figures, then he would do six repaints. Same figures for the most part, but higher ratio of regular figs to variants. Then occasionally release a give away or something of a figure possibly from that assortment.

I agree, Mcf is the worst: look at his recent Monsters line:

Six figures (clean)
All six with Blood Splattered on them
All Six (clean) with Blood Spattered on the Bubble
All Six with Blood on the Bubble and the Figure
Werewolf with mask off, in all the afformentioned varieties

That is 28 different varieties, just at retail!!!


Some count the two colors of Vaca Foz as a variant of a variant. Technically I guess it is, but I don't consider it to be.

Which leads us to, which ones the variant, and which is the variant squared?




it is much simpler than it appears. The "real" variants have not exceeded the number of actual figures, and the ratio will drop further as there will be NO variants in Series 3.

No variants, not even the in the case repaint? (uncleduke causes a blind panic amongst all the users)

[ResidentLilly]

Oh yeah..forgot the Zoot repaint. That'll stay in the case as a chase fig.

Jim thank your son for the postcard for me...made my day (was a rough one). Really appreciate it a lot.

[uncleduke]

Originally posted by ResidentLilly
Jim thank your son for the postcard for me...made my day (was a rough one). Really appreciate it a lot.

Glad you liked it, so who's bra do you think that is hanging off the ligh fixture? Janices?
LOL
BTW the drawing is supposed to be Beaker

[ResidentLilly]

Well it sure ain't Piggy's!

[uncleduke]

Originally posted by kansasteen14
so what are they?

Trust us, your'e better off not knowing..........
The Muppet Mafia would come after you. Those of us with this knowledge are in terrible risk, as are our families.
I am surprised the moderators have let it go this far withoiut deleating the messages.

[MrTheFrog]

Hey Ken,
When you say no variants for series 3 other than Zoot repaint, does that include, no Rowlf Tux or Scooter Superhero?
Just wondering,
-Artie

[frogboy4]

I think is was stated that Palisades wants to release figure exclusives in mis-matched series in the future so I'd say that Rowlf (and possibly Scooter) would come out in 4 or 5. Just my guess. It really would be smarter that way, but I think those guys have been a lock for quite some time. This is not counting the repaints of course.

[dr. gorry]

i have a confession,i am a *deep breath* completist.*mc-ers
gasp*i mean my older brother loves these figures and tells me "the exclusives are not going to make your collection any better than the regular ones will",and my mom is dying because well lets see,um each time a new exclusive comes out,$7 comes out of her wallet and there currentley being(to me)5 series 1 exclusives

dr.teeth
hair piggy
invisible beaker
vc beaker
tux kermy

my mom is thinking less and less of getting me a b-day present.lol.
now i don't want mispackaged beaker or luchbox kermit,just the above.and well series 2 will be a fatal blow so to speak with

vacation fozzie
vacation fozzie 2
invisible fozzie
floyd repaint
crash gonzo

now i have c-gonzo on pre-order and i'll get IS foz through my b-day,and i will order a series 2 case so there's a floyd leaving only 2 left for me to get.ha!lilly you though you and horn could kill this completist but he struck back!:D lol.

and i still have to get muppet labs!!!!:eek:

[uncleduke]

Originally posted by dr. gorry
...now i have c-gonzo on pre-order and i'll get IS foz through my b-day,and i will order a series 2 case so there's a floyd leaving only 2 left for me to get.ha!lilly you though you and horn could kill this completist but he struck back!:D lol.

Yeah Gory, by giving them all your matress burning money you are sending a strong message LOL
I am joking of course.
You crack me up

[ResidentLilly]

I'll get you yet gorry...and your little dog too!!!!

I think you may be the only 11 year old kid who calls me Lilly. That is funny. Hope to meet you someday, you going to SDCC?

[kane31666]

Gorry, man you crack me up.:D

[kansasteen14]

what is the wedding set?

[dr. gorry]

matress burning?nah,too cold.now i get an allowance for just sittin on my butt all day.that's money even i can make.

[beaker]

>>>Some count the two colors of Vaca Foz as a variant of a variant. Technically I guess it is, but I don't consider it to be. Don't get me wrong you can if you want. The intent there was to give you all a choice. Which color do you like best? The uber-completist may think they must have both, but you don't gotta. Same fig completely. IN fact, some uber-completists (and I do get it because I have done some uber-completing in the past<<<

no variants in series 3? Ack. but yeah, welcome to the land of uber completists on here. The giveaway fully invisable beaker tho is a variant wouldnt some of you agree? I mean Kermit in lunchbox is the exact kermit, and mini lunchbox you can buy seperately. And if ya wanna get finicky there is two vacation variants...so vacation fozzie.a, and vacation fozzie.b!

so if youre an uber completist, the variants have already equelled the regular figureso_0

[ResidentLilly]

It's a fairly standard practice in this business if you ask me.