If Doc couldn't see Fraggles, why was Uncle Matt so easily visible?

[Gobo_Tron2]

I'm going to try launching a new technical debate that Fraggle fans always seem to fall into. This question just sprung up in my head today. Gobo was so surprised that he was invisible to Doc and I guess rightly so, since Traveling Matt never reported encountering such a phenomenon with the countless silly creatures he's come across.

I'm trying to come up with a logical explanation for this and haven't been able to before. And I suppose you can just write it off as a show continuity problem, but I truly don't believe this is the case with a show where the writers even explained where the light in the caves came from.

The only solid information we have about this comes from Cantus who explains that Doc is someone who "cannot see". Possibly another clue comes from the Trashheap when she explains to Gobo about how everything is magic and silly creatures easily forget this all-important fact.

But although this explains the problem as it related to Doc, it doesn't help to explain why countless other silly creatures seem to have no trouble seeing and interacting with Traveling Matt.

From my interpretation of what was spoken about it, it seems like it is some kind of 'sleeping' state that rendered Gobo invisible to Doc, as if Doc was 'Fraggle-blind' because he didn't "know" they were there. The explanation was all cryptic and somewhat difficult to translate into simple terms, but even if I just look at Cantus's words for what they were, it seems to me that a rather large percentage of humans would be unable to see Fraggles. Traveling Matt would definately have come across some of them by this point.

Any ideas or theories about what forces are at work here? Something I totally missed?

[Gorgon Heap]

Hmm, I would've expected people to be chomping at the bit to try and explain this, but it seems that no one is brave enough to try and explain this as anything other than a continuity error. Only explanation I can come up with is that silly creatures aren't blind to Uncle Matt but simply to the fact that he's a Fraggle (in other words, maybe when they see him, they just think he's a midget or a child, perhaps not paying attention). Poor explanation, I know, but it's the only one I've got.

David "Gorgon Heap" Ebersole

[MWoO]

Wow, I'm surprised no one has come across this thread in over a year as well.

Well, I do not remember much about Fraggle Rock, but I do remember one episode in which Matt visited a sheep ranch. The guy sheering the sheep just picked up Matt and sheered him too. So, since this is the only post card I really remember well, perhaps all the "silly creatures" do in fact see Matt as various things that would fit in with the surroundings. On the roller coaster he is seen as a child, on the ranch he is seen as a sheep, in the broom closet he is seen as a broom or something.

Are there any other segments that support this theory?

[luvtosr]

Hmm, Uncle Matt is mistaken for a doll at one point so the theory has weight to it.

Another, possibly more extreme and unlikely theory is that as Matt has been globe trotting he has been jostled around by so many Silly Creatures that his existence has entered into a kind of collective conciousness so he, and he alone can be seen by Silly Creatures and not seem weird to them.

I know it's a bit out there and it doesn't explain the shearing but perhaps that particular shepherd needs to visit the opticians...

[Fragglemuppet]

I agree with David's theery. The reason that Doc couldn't see fraggles, was that Sprocket kept insisting to him that they existed. Therefore, Doc expected that if he did see anything, it would be a fraggle, hense, he saw nothing. The people who came in to contact with Uncle Matt, however, did not expect to see a fraggle, leaving there minds open to anything else that might fall across their paths, such as a doll, or a sheep. Does this make sense?

[DerekJ]

...Umm, no. :smirk:

I just assumed the obvious comic face-value--
Doc's just too disorganized to notice anything past his workbench, and the communications-impaired Sprocket would forever be frustrated in trying to get his intruder-alert across:

"My brain must be getting fragile--"
"(Arf, arf!)" (nods, "go with it...")
"--Oh, your brain must be getting fragile, too?"
"(sigh!)"

[Kimp the Shrimp]

yeah i just figured he was slow moving so he never saw them

Traving Matt was seen by people and helped by them

[Fragglemuppet]

When was Matt ever "helped" by a human? It would seem to me that they never did see him as a fraggle.

[MrsPepper]

When was Matt ever "helped" by a human? It would seem to me that they never did see him as a fraggle.
In "Let the Water Run", a little girl ran over and gave him an umbrella.

[Docnzhoss]

In "Let the Water Run", a little girl ran over and gave him an umbrella.

Yes, because it was about to rain and the girl saw that Uncle Matt had nothing with which to protect himself.

[Wembley]

Well, here's my take on it:

Doc is a scientist/inventor - and as such, he's more into the concrete - that is, facts he can prove to be true.

Fraggles, by their very essence are magic! Doc cannot even consider the possibility of magic.

Children, on the other hand, have large imaginations and are very receptive to magic. This is why children can see Fraggles as Fraggles.

Most adults have some imagination, but not nearly as much as children. This is why to most adults, Fraggles may appear as part of the environment - that is, to the sheep shearer as a sheep, as a child to the teacher (in Gobo's School for Explorers) etc.

Doc, seems to have no imagination. Yes, he's creative - but creativity and imagination are two different things. While Sprocket knows there's something living in the wall, Doc sets up a series of experiements to prove it.

For anyone who's seen the last trilogy, "Gorg who would be King", "Honk of Honks", and "Change of Address", it really brings together the whole Fraggle/Gorg/Silly Creature universe - and is very well written and produced. I'd love to see more done with this storyline - Doc lives in the desert now, or maybe a new Doc is in the workshop - etc, and Gobo and crew travel to new places with Doc. Maybe we could even get to meet Ned Schimmelfinny! Now that Doc has "rediscovered" his imagination, there's no limit to what fun adventures they could have.

Of course, now that Doc and Gobo are friends, Gobo would have to have an email address... :)

-Rick "Wembley" Miller
..."You can NOT leave the magic!"

[minor muppetz]

people say that doc didn't beleive sprockt that there were fraggles. did doc ever acknowledge that sprocket saw fraggles but he didn't?

I haven't seen honk of Honks. can anybody tell me how gobo found out that humans couldn't see him? I thoguht that doc being unable to see gobo was because he was in front of the desk, which doc was usually behind, and that doc missing gobo was like how big birds friends kept missing mr. snuffleupagus.

Speaking of that, and of doc not seeing fraggles becasue he expected to see them, I have wondered if that was similar to the sesame street adults not seeing mr. snuffleupagus. as far as i know, big bird met snuffy without expecting to see him, but then he told the other humans, and they didn't beleive him, and they always missed him because they expected to see him. think about it. when they finally saw snuffy, was it hard for them to see him after that?

[luvtosr]

Sure.

Right at the start of the episode Gobo goes to get his postcard. Doc is behind the work desk as he goes in but comes round to work on something on the floor in front of the desk. Sprocket starts barking at Gobo and Doc says "What are you barking at, Sprocket, what is it? I don't see anything." and Gobo says "What about me?" But Doc doesn't hear him either.

Hope that helps.

[Kimp the Shrimp]

it;s simple Your eyes can't see what your mind doesn't believe

[minor muppetz]

Sure.

Right at the start of the episode Gobo goes to get his postcard. Doc is behind the work desk as he goes in but comes round to work on something on the floor in front of the desk. Sprocket starts barking at Gobo and Doc says "What are you barking at, Sprocket, what is it? I don't see anything." and Gobo says "What about me?" But Doc doesn't hear him either.

Hope that helps.

why does gobo go to get a postcard? I thought that traveling matt had decided to permaneantly live in fraggle rock again after the fourth season.

[luvtosr]

Ah, got me. I'm missing a few episodes from seasons 4 and 5 so I pretty much assumed that's what he was doing,(yeah, yeah, I know what assuming makes).

*Runs back and re-watches episode*

He isn't getting a postcard, (silly me), he's "Going down a tunnel to see what (he) can see" seems he's just going along to see what's out in Outer Space for the fun of it.

I only just got the episode a couple of weeks ago along with about seventy others so they haven't all quite stuck in my head yet. Sorry for the mix up!

[minor muppetz]

Just because doc couldn't see or hear fraggles doen't mean that other humans couldn't. how do we know that doc wasn't the only human who had this problem? perhaps there was some kind of disability that affeced certain people so that they could only see and hear fraggles if they were touched by one.

[baby sinclair]

This is tricky,but i cant really say much on this affair because i've never seen the last episode.But i do recall in some random episodes where fraggles were clearly visible.Theres was the one where uncle matt was standing in the middle of the street trying to communicate with cars,and the cars were honking their horns at him so apparently he was spotted that time.Uncle matt also played as a manican(i know terrible spelling)and a store clerk noticed him and threw out into the mall,so he was spotted then as well.Also one more encounter that i can think of is where uncle matt was in britain and this british soldier(forget their name they wear that marge simpson looking hat,lol)also spotted and startled him as i recall.

So from what i gatherd fraggles can be seen just as long as the viewer cant trace a fraggles origin which could very well make fraggle rock and our world have a gigantic black hole between our universes.I believe thats part of why he could'nt see gobo because the magical force that holds the worlds together felt that Doc was a threat because he would exploit this new world and cause a great threat to fraggle rocks culture.Thats my opinion and i guess it might make sense?

[luvtosr]

Actually it does. For most of the time Gobo was pretty good at hiding from Doc but in the Honk of Honks episode Doc is actually trying to do experiments to prove whether there is intelligent life behind the wall. Maybe it's the Science that blocks the Magic somehow and it could only be breached by Gobo reaching out to Doc in a moment of need. That's why Gobo had to be 'touched' by Doc emotionally then touch him back physically. Gobo had to have that feeling of empathy for Doc to create a magic link between them otherwise Doc might not have been able to feel him. Well, it's a theory.

[Xerus]

Sometimes, Doc doesn't even pay attention to Sprocket and his needs. Like when Sprocket needed breakfast, Doc was too busy trying to figure out how to sew a button on a fried egg and he ended up giving the frozen fried egg to poor Sprocket.

And when it was Sprocket's birthday, Doc was too busy with a favorite book of his to remember or notice the party favors, until the next day.

When Sprocket got stuck in the Fraggle hole, Doc didn't pay attention to him for he had a Doozer helmet stuck to his finger and left without looking at the spot Sprocket was in.

And when Sprocket got lost in Fraggle Rock, Doc was too busy with the pipes to notice he was gone.

[blackurth]

there's only two explanations for this..

1.Doc was a near sighted old man who couldn't see past the end of his nose and when he wore his glasses he couldn't see because his prescription was old and because he lived in a small garage and was a poor starving scientist he couldn't afford new glasses.....

or...


2.He DID see him but didn't want people to think he was going crazy,or maby he WAS going crazy which made it so he would hallucinate the fraggles awayfrom his reality....


there's only two explanations for why other people saw travelling matt

1.they say him as a puppeter therefore he would be a real person,for example,when uncle matt was almost hit by the car the car honked because the driver thought that some crazy puppeter was in the middle of the street and the kid gave matt the umbrella so the puppeter would get wet....

or

2.the world is crazy and filled with crazy people who hallutonate everything,so therefore they don't REALLY see fraggles they just think they do.....

[Wembley]

Well like I said before - it all depends on the amount of imagination one has - children have lots of imagination, so they naturally see Fraggles - and accept them as fellow children.

Adults that have more imagination see Fraggles as part of the environment or as small people. That is, like the car almost hitting Uncle Matt - the driver saw something but is probably not sure what - for example, if I saw something like Uncle Matt almost go bouncing off my front bumper, I'd think it was an animal etc.

As for Doc - since he's a scientist, he has no imagination - he is all creativity, and has to be "touched" - since, as the Trash Heap says, he is one of those who "cannot see"

See?

-Rick "Wembley" Miller
..."You can NOT leave the magic"

[Effralyo]

In "Let the Water Run", a little girl ran over and gave him an umbrella.And that was a pic I can`t stop to admit after printing. For a looooooooong time. Matthee is so sweet anyway................:flirt:

[minor muppetz]

As for Doc - since he's a scientist, he has no imagination - he is all creativity, and has to be "touched" - since, as the Trash Heap says, he is one of those who "cannot see"

Maybe a lot of silly creatures could see fraggles, but since fraggles are inside fraggle holes most people don't know about them. maybe there are some who are unable to see fraggles. maybe there are doozers and gorgs who can't see them, but they are mor likely to know of their existence then humans (and the fraggles would probably be happy if there were gorgs who couldn't see them).