Very Merry Muppet Christmas reairs on NBC December 6th

[Aaron]

TV Tome reports that Very Merry Muppet Christmas will reair on NBC December 6th at 8/7 central.

[Pino]

rawlf I love you :sympathy:

[Aaron]

:) thanks

[Daffyfan2003]

That is good news. Now I don't need to buy the video. I can just tape it off the TV. :)

[rexcrk]

Yay! Thanks for the info :)

[Drtooth]

That is good news. Now I don't need to buy the video. I can just tape it off the TV. :)


I already taped mine off TV last year, but if you have a DVD player (which I don't) I'd strongly suggest going out and getting it. I hear it's pretty good...

[Ryan]

Aaron, That Rowlf X-mas avatar is really cute. Did you draw it?

[Aaron]

I wish My friend Kyle aka Erine81981 did

[Daffyfan2003]

I checked the TV Guide, which says it was on at 9 instead of 8. Maybe I should check online for more updated info.

[Chilly Down]

Yeah -- everyone be sure to check your TV Guide (either the magazine or online) to make sure you've got the correct times for the area where you live. In Chicago, it's airing at 8 p.m., which means that in New York it's airing at 9 p.m. California's on the same schedule as New York, for some reason, so it'll air at 9 p.m. there. (Even though 6 p.m. in CA is the same as 9 p.m. in NY, and 9 p.m. in CA is 12 midnight in NY, both areas are airing the movie at 9 p.m. in THEIR time zones. Did that make any sense?)

So, anyway...just check your local times. :p

[Fozzie]

I love this movie. I bought it on DVD a few weeks ago. Some of the cut scenes are hilarious! I taped this movie when it came on last year and couldn't find it after that.

[Don'tLiveonMoon]

I'm watching it on TV right now. We just got home from Buffalo and it was on. We have it on tape from last year, but it's always fun to see Christmas specials actually on TV. :cool:
Erin

[rexcrk]

It's a very merry muppet christmas movie was great! I had seen it last year, but I lost the tape. There was a lot I had forgotten about it. I especially loved how Scooter and Janice got some speaking parts! ;) :flirt:

[AndyWan Kenobi]

I really liked this movie too, and the dvd is great. If you missed it tonight, though, I think the Hallmark channel will be reairing it again in the evening on December 17th.

:)

[A-N-I-M-A-L]

If anyone could be so kind as to tell me of a site where I could download the entire movie of Merry Muppet Christmas I'd be quite grateful thank you.

[A-N-I-M-A-L]

someone PLEASE tell me where to download MERRY MUPPET CHRISTMAS I'd be extremley grateful

[Erine81981]

I didn't see it last night but did buy it on dvd. I can't wait to watch all the goods. :)

[petrieboy]

Last year I watched it with my friend Tiffany, 27, who said "I would be offended by this, but to me the Muppets died when Jim Henson died. They will never recapture his magic. These are not the real Muppets."

This year I watched with my gay liberal school counselor friend Tom, 33, and he said, "This is my least favorite Muppet movie. They are going way over the boundaries. I think someone was trying to make a political statement casting Whoopi as God." He gasped at Joan Cusack shoving Pepe against her breasts after telling him he'll get his "Christmas bonus." He dropped his jaw at Scooter in the rave cage. He was in disbelief over the flaming gay pig dance instructor- and found it horribly wrong that he grabbed Kermit's butt.

At one point, he said "If I see or hear one more product or name placement, we are turning this off. Was this just for money? The magic of the Muppets was that they always were an entity to themselves, interacting with their human counterparts, but always true to themselves- now their company seems to be pushing more and more of the outside world garbage and crap into them, fusing them together so that they are no different than the outside world, and it's disturbing and sad." He was also sad to hear Janice's very weak imitation of a voice.

My letdown came last year, and so I was able to enjoy some of it a bit more this year - and feel depressed a bit more at remembering some of the horrors of this movie. It really reminds me of Disney in the 1980's, when they were sort of rebelling against the innocence of Walt, churning out unmemorable fluff, going with the flow of our depraved world. But Disney resurrected itself with The Little Mermaid" in 1989, and their masterpiece "Beauty and the Beast" 2 years later. I hope that Henson regains creativity, puts the musical back in the Muppets (it worked for Disney) and remembers the family on their next outing. And I don't mean Wizard of Oz Muppets, because that's desperation. IAVMMCM showed signs of everything the Muppets could and used to be (especially toward the end of it.) I think they need a STRONG storyline, an original one- just risk everything and do an all-out grand Muppet movie- with music by Alan Menken and directed by Frank Oz or Tim Burton?

[Daffyfan2003]

I really liked this movie too, and the dvd is great. If you missed it tonight, though, I think the Hallmark channel will be reairing it again in the evening on December 17th.

:)

Then it's a good thing I got it on tape since I don't have the Hallmark channel. Lol.

[Beebers]

I agree with everything petrieboy has to say about this film, and there are additional problems with it. A cardinal rule in writing good scripts is that you never construct the story so that it might become dated. The best films stand the test of time. This one, only two years in, does not.

This film is larded with "current" skit references: the Moulin Rouge/Scrooge scene, crocodile hunter, etc. Ten years from now new people will see this and say WHAT was that, who was THAT supposed to be. This is a deadly practice and you can feel the desperation as you watch it, as if not one original thought crossed any desk anywhere and they knew it.

The timing and pacing, once a Muppet hallmark, are either absent entirely or just plain off, and whoever did the Kermit build for this one should be, well, I won't say. He looks awful. There are several moments, too, when you are listening to Steve Whitmire, not Kermit.

There's a sense that they're trying too hard to please, and all ages at that, and trying too hard to be cool/current/hip. Stand-up comedians have always had a term called "flop sweat". You're standing up there on stage and bombing to a silent audience and flop sweat sets in on you. This movie brings that term to my mind, the desperation of it.

There is not one laugh-out-loud moment. We watched Muppet Family Christmas immediately after the movie last night and the difference in quality, in every aspect, is really pretty shocking.

[Chilly Down]

This film is larded with "current" skit references: the Moulin Rouge/Scrooge scene, crocodile hunter, etc. Ten years from now new people will see this and say WHAT was that, who was THAT supposed to be. This is a deadly practice and you can feel the desperation as you watch it, as if not one original thought crossed any desk anywhere and they knew it.

The pop culture references don't bother me. The original Flintstones cartoon was loaded with pop culture references, and it's still considered a classic. How many times did the Warner Bros. characters make references to WWII (which was going on while those cartoons were being made)? Even the Muppets (Sesame included) have parodied everything from Star Wars to Placido Domingo.

The problem is not, IMHO, that there were pop culture references. The problem is that most of them just weren't all that funny.

[Beebers]

Yes, but you don't hang the entire creative hat on such weak references, which was done throughout this movie. WW II was not a weak reference; people still know what it is. The T.V. shows didn't depend for their lives on the pop culture references, they had other things going on as well.

[Chilly Down]

WW II was not a weak reference; people still know what it is.

When I was a kid, I had no idea what the references to war rations, etc. were all about. But the cartoons were still funny for me.

Similarly, I don't think it's really necessary to understand what all the references in VMC were specifically about. Even if Scrubs gets canceled and no one remembers it in a few years, the essential story point/gag -- that Piggy's just an extra in a hospital show, but she thinks she's an important guest star -- will make sense.

The Moulin Scrooge gag is much more specific, but I don't think Moulin Rouge is a flash in the pan. I think that's a movie that many people will remember 10+ years from now.

Nothing against you, Beebers. I even agree with your basic assertion that the gags themselves weren't very funny. We're basically just nitpicking the semantics of it at this point -- because that's what Muppet fans do. ;)

[AndyWan Kenobi]

We're basically just nitpicking the semantics of it at this point -- because that's what Muppet fans do. ;)

I thought Muppet fans just liked the Muppets... ;)

[Gonzo14]

i concur

[AndyWan Kenobi]

someone PLEASE tell me where to download MERRY MUPPET CHRISTMAS I'd be extremley grateful

Sorry to say, but I don't think anyone's going to be able to help you with this. Since the movie is available on dvd, and since I'm sure we all want to support the Henson company, I don't think people are going to tell you about bootlegs online. Sorry...

Check your listings for repeat showings, if you're just looking to see it...

[jorwick]

I set the PVR to record this thinking it may be fun to watch with my two year old boy who is the reason I am out of the loop (no I didn't expect he would understand it, but he like to watch the characters)

Maybe I am just a little old fashioned, but the idea of the Muppet theater having a topless dancing license seems a bit inappropriate. Just as Kermit's approval of getting the license is a little too tacit. Maybe Kermit the Frog has a dark underside and he frequents such places, holds dreams of running one, etc, but I don't think that is a side of Kermit my children need to know about. A couple more comments from Pepe was all it took for me to decide I didn't want to see my favorite characters from childhood cheapened and degraded in this way. Its billed as a children's show and its content should be appropriate. I don't really disapprove of the lifestyles, etc portrayed in this film, but the references are from an adults world, and contrary to what seems to be popular belief, children are NOT little adults. There is an appropriate time to introduce such concepts to them, but not in a show billed as a family christmas special.

I certainly hope that this was done on ED TV's watch and none of the Henson kids had anything to do with it. If they did, perhaps they have been living in New York too long and don't know what passes for decent family entertainment in the rest of the country. It seems sad that the Muppets have been hijacked to try and push a political agenda (Whoopi Goldberg as a dispassionate, uncaring God -- In a Christmas special no less!)

Maybe it got better, but I couldn't give it more than the 15 minutes I gave it. Thank god there are still wonderful Muppets things My kids can watch, though unfortunately I am going to have to preview them from now on...

:p

[GREG O REE]

Previewing before the little ones watch is always a good idea. I watched the movie last year and taped it this year. I cut out commercials and any scenes I consider questionable for my kids (our youngest is two). Yes, I hope we can get some more new Muppet productions that don't require this practice - but that is just where we are right now. Post Jim Henson projects have been pretty decent with the exception of this movie and a few Muppets Tonights bits (that I also edited for family viewing - Bay of Pigswatch, for example).

Anyone know why the video/DVD is rated PG and the tv movie is G?

Overall, I enjoyed IVAMMCM. It has some really funny scenes and it was great to see some of the older characters back. Hoping to see more Clifford and Bobo in the future though. The message was appropriate and I will forgive them for Whoopi portraying "the boss."

Peace! Merry Christmas, everyone!

[Amazing Mumford]

A number of people obviously thought this special had too much adult humor, but Henson can't please everybody. If they make a purely kiddie movie, they'll alienate many adult fans. The classic Muppets are not Sesame Street and the target audience isn't pre-school kids.

Were some of the jokes inappropriate for kids? Sure. But, how many of those jokes went over kids heads? Probably a good share of them.

Also, it's JUST a Muppet movie--it really won't scar children for life. A generation from now, if there's large numbers of young adults becoming cage dancers because they saw Scooter do it on a Muppet movie, then I guess I'm wrong.

I really think they tried to make this movie for the hardcore, longtime Muppet fans--who are overwhelmingly adult. That's why they loaded it with inside jokes (i.e. Doc Hopper's frog legs) and brought back the classic set and characters.

It's extremely difficult to make movies that appeal to both kids and adults. Jim Henson happened to be very good at it. Unfortunately, the people running JHC apparently don't have the same touch. So, they sometimes have to choose between (A) pleasing longtime fans and (B) entertaining the little ones. They chose option A for IAVMMCM.

That being said, I didn't particularly enjoy the movie. Among other things, the tone was too dark and the jokes weren't all that funny. However, I respect them for attempting to make the Muppet enjoyable again for adults as well as children.

Oh, and does Whoopi playing God really have to be a political "agenda'? I think it was just to get a cheap chuckle because she's the opposite of how most people picture God. Nothing more.

[Beebers]

I set the PVR to record this thinking it may be fun to watch with my two year old boy who is the reason I am out of the loop (no I didn't expect he would understand it, but he like to watch the characters)

Maybe I am just a little old fashioned, but the idea of the Muppet theater having a topless dancing license seems a bit inappropriate. Just as Kermit's approval of getting the license is a little too tacit. Maybe Kermit the Frog has a dark underside and he frequents such places, holds dreams of running one, etc, but I don't think that is a side of Kermit my children need to know about. A couple more comments from Pepe was all it took for me to decide I didn't want to see my favorite characters from childhood cheapened and degraded in this way. Its billed as a children's show and its content should be appropriate. I don't really disapprove of the lifestyles, etc portrayed in this film, but the references are from an adults world, and contrary to what seems to be popular belief, children are NOT little adults. There is an appropriate time to introduce such concepts to them, but not in a show billed as a family christmas special.

I certainly hope that this was done on ED TV's watch and none of the Henson kids had anything to do with it. If they did, perhaps they have been living in New York too long and don't know what passes for decent family entertainment in the rest of the country. It seems sad that the Muppets have been hijacked to try and push a political agenda (Whoopi Goldberg as a dispassionate, uncaring God -- In a Christmas special no less!)

Maybe it got better, but I couldn't give it more than the 15 minutes I gave it. Thank god there are still wonderful Muppets things My kids can watch, though unfortunately I am going to have to preview them from now on...

:p


Those parts of the movie probably threw a lot of people. They were lifted directly from Frank Capra's "It's A Wonderful Life", in which a suicidal Harry Bailey (Jimmy Stewart) is shown by an angel what his hometown would have become had he never been born. (A den of iniquity.) Kermit decides he should never have been born and is shown how things would have turned out without him, hence all those rather nasty scenes.

It's part of what I was trying to say earlier, that the movie is nothing but a crazy-quilt pastiche of poorly-done borrowing rather than an original script.

Jim Henson wanted to entertain adults, not just kids. This did not entertain any adults I know, and was not appropriate for young kids.

[petrieboy]

"Henson can't please everybody. If they make a purely kiddie movie, they'll alienate many adult fans. The classic Muppets are not Sesame Street and the target audience isn't pre-school kids."

Wrong. Henson CAN please everybody. "The Muppet Movie" and "The Muppet Show" appeal to children and adults, with a sweet spirit, wicked creativity and good writing- nothing "kiddie" about them, and nothing vulgar or questionable either. Roger Ebert has always said that any good "children's" film will be just as enjoyable for adults, or else it's not that good. No one here wants Sesame Street, and no one is looking for pre-school entertainment. There's a wide open field between that and IAVMMCM that could have been explored. This was a sell-out project through and through. And I'm a sell-out for purchasing the dvd, just to complete my Muppet collection.
I suggest that those who were offended and want the "true" Muppets to return, write to fanmail@henson.com and voice their concerns.

[rexcrk]

There is not one laugh-out-loud moment.

Actually, I found myself laughing out loud at the part where Howard grabs Kermit's butt and says "Love that tushy!" and I loved the part with Kermit at Club Dot and Sam the Eagle is swinging glow sticks around, Beaker is the bouncer, Scooter in the cage, Bunsen as the door manager, Johnny selling drinks, Statler and Waldorf not buying drinks for "the ladies", it was great! :D

[Skeeter Muppet]

It's not gonna happen. There's no way that the Muppets can go back to the way they used to be.

Unless you know of some way to ressurect the dead.

-Kim

[beaker]

It's not gonna happen. There's no way that the Muppets can go back to the way they used to be.

True. JHC didnt start doing 'remakes of classic stories' as features until post JH.

Anyways, glad they reshowed this. If Muppet Movie is a full course, this is just an appetizer and should be viewed as such. I actually now find it more enthralling to see more of a edgy/inappropriate side, given most the fans seem to be the older nostalgia crowd.

My top ten fave things about VMC:

1. Kermit referencing Muppet Central
2. The Two Bossmen!
3. Pepe
4. Buff Beaker
5. penguins!
6. nite club scene
7. return of the theatre
8. Cirque de su l'ame(so bizarre!)
9. Moulin Scrouge
10. Seeing obscure and older Muppets return

I say get the dvd, if nothign else than for the Pepe Actors Guild parody thingy.

[Don'tLiveonMoon]

To be honest, I wasn't that crazy about IAVMMCM. I guess it was all the adult humor in it, and I found Joan Cusack really annoying. Whoopi didn't bother me that much, though it did seem like her presence might have been making some kind of political / theological statement. I don't know. I like Whoopi, so I didn't really care, but I found the movie on the whole to be disappointing. And part of it may be that "It's A Wonderful Life" just doesn't seem like a movie you ought to remake. "A Christmas Carol" worked, and I loved that movie, but that one's been done so many times anyway that it was almost expected the Muppets would have done a version. There are scenes in IAVMMCM that I thought were really good, like the whole thing where Fozzie was on his fruitless quest, but I'd probably say it's my least favorite of the Muppet movies.
Erin

[Don'tLiveonMoon]

1. Kermit referencing Muppet Central

I remember noticing that last year. I thought that was pretty cool! :cool:
Erin

[rexcrk]

LOL! Is Kermit referencing Muppet Central when he makes the comment about "one of those Internet Muppet fan sites"? :)

[jediX]

Well, sorta. Wasn't a direct reference, but... oh well. Not worth debating either way.

I really liked seeing Scooter back...that's probably what makes the show watchable for me now (at least the parts w/o Whoopi...I've never cared for her much)... I skip over that beginning crap with David Arquette. I really liked Scoot's comment "my Uncle used to own the theatre!"

What was my fave part? That it ended! Just kidding... of the whole thing I liked... um...I don't know. Just that Scooter was there, I guess. I missed that guy.

Besides, Muppets weren't exactly intended for JUST children to begin with. It saddens me they put the TMS discs in the children's section instead of the tv or comedy. As far as I'm concerned, the ONLY intended-for-children mainstream "Muppet" films or projects are Muppet Babies, toon Fraggle Rock, Little Muppet Monsters, Xmas Toy/Secret Life of Toys, Fraggle Rock (to some extent...I guess it was intended for kids at the time but it has carried over to popularity among people of our age brackets) and Tale of the Bunny Picnic (I don't consider 'Bear' Muppet whatsoever). Are any of those shows 'risqué'? No way -- they're even cleaner than the garbagey children's shows of today. I'll STILL throw in one of my Muppet Babies tapes to this day and get a decent laugh from them. Now THAT was A+ children's material.

Bottom line -- there are enough Muppet Christmas specials and movies. I'l stick w/ my good ol' Muppet Family Christmas anyday. And I'll watch my VHS copy from the original airdate, not that sadly butchered DVD. Ahhh... memories :)

Second bottom line -- I'm sick of all the blasted "classic tale" remakes/retellings. I've watched the three "classic" films (The Muppet Movie, Great Muppet Caper, Muppets Take Manhattan) exponentially more than the post Jim ones. Heck, I hadn't seen Muppet Christmas Carol since the theater release until this weekend when I got the DVD.

That's my two cents... I'm out.

[Chilly Down]

Maybe I am just a little old fashioned, but the idea of the Muppet theater having a topless dancing license seems a bit inappropriate. Just as Kermit's approval of getting the license is a little too tacit.

The joke was that Kermit is technically "topless" -- i.e., except for his collar, he isn't wearing anything. Just as Mickey Mouse is technically "topless." The Muppets have done jokes like that before, but I think the problem was with the execution on this one. Most people (including myself) completely missed the gag the first time around, and had the same shocked reaction you had.

[Super Scooter]

All this debate about kids entertainment and adult entertainment reminds me of something. The other night, PBS showed a documentary on The Jack Paar Show, and one of the scenes shown was of when the Muppets did "I've Grown Accustomed to Your Face" on the show. Afterward, it was interrupted by a telethon, and one of the hosts commented.: "I didn't remember the Muppets being so crude. Yuck!"

Hehe! Just goes to show you, the Muppets haven't changed much in the last 40 years.

[Tera]

I have to disagree with most of what's been said in this forum. I LOVE VMC, and will be watching it for many years to come. Bear with me while I summarize my responses to what's been said...

I think it was more adult than most Muppet shows, and I'm OK with that. Its not surprising, considering how adult the movie they were parodying was. My 2 and 7 year olds might not like it (except for select chase and Cirque parody scenes) yet, but I think they will as they get older.
It also seems a bit weird to complain about pop culture references when the movie is a parody of a pop culture icon - Its a Wonderful Life. Are some of the references dated? Yes, but I still don't get all the references in the original Muppet Show, because it had dated references as well. Think about sketches and characters like Pigs in Space, Vet Hospital, Electric Mayhem esp. Janice...I could go on. As for new Muppets, what about Johnny?
How can you like the Muppets without liking cultural references? :confused: All great comedy laughs at culture, espcially contemporary culture. Shakespeare and Jane Austin did it - why can't we? If we can't laugh at our own world, who can we laugh at? If the jokes are good enough, they'll hold up anyway. I think the vast majority of these are.

I loved the Dot scene. I think these will hold up over time because the mood is dark and somewhat surreal. Even when this form of club has gone the way of the Dodo, the mood of the scene will carry the message.

I didn't think Whoopi was 'dispassionate and uncaring' as God. I think her portrayl of God showed a Creator who deeply cares, but doesn't get involved in the day to day details of our lives. Only when something goes beyond our ability to change or cope does She step in. This is a very common modern concept of God.
I thought it interesting that she didn't fix the problem for Kermit - she just helped him to see the good in his life. God didn't change the world; She changed Kermit's heart. If God can harden the heart of Pharoah, why not lighten the heart of a frog? (Its easier on the frogs than having the rain down on someone :) )

I, too, was bothered by the topless thing. The joke didn't work, and stepped over the line for me. But that was one line in the entire show.

I loved Gonzo's song, The Divine Miss P as the Cat Lady, all the parody sketches for the Xmas Eve show, Fozzie's chase scene, the Doc Hopper reference, and the tushie grab. I think its funny that a pig did it. I kept waiting for Kermit to parody the Indian Jones line & say "Pigs? Why did it have to be pigs?"

Bottom line, I'll skip MCC and watch VMC and MFC every year.

[beaker]

LOL! Is Kermit referencing Muppet Central when he makes the comment about "one of those Internet Muppet fan sites"? :)
Well, he didnt say "Are you one of those Muppet Central people?" but we knew what he meant. Btw, Steve Whitmire wrote a really cool letter to MC readers not to long ago.

Muppet fandom is unique, in that the fans are pretty underground (even though I think Muppets are well known the world over more than Disney)

I dont feel VMC holds a candle to Muppet family Xmas...I feel that is the greatest thing JHC has ever produced, but for the era were in, I cant complain to much about VMC. The fact we got two pseduo Muppet features last year is really good.

[Don'tLiveonMoon]

I didn't think Whoopi was 'dispassionate and uncaring' as God. I think her portrayl of God showed a Creator who deeply cares, but doesn't get involved in the day to day details of our lives. Only when something goes beyond our ability to change or cope does She step in. This is a very common modern concept of God.
I thought it interesting that she didn't fix the problem for Kermit - she just helped him to see the good in his life. God didn't change the world; She changed Kermit's heart. If God can harden the heart of Pharoah, why not lighten the heart of a frog? (Its easier on the frogs than having the rain down on someone :) )

Yeah, I didn't think she was too bad. Sorta similar to Morgan Freeman's take on God in "Bruce Almighty." I guess you're kinda treading on dangerous ground anytime you try to portray God. I just figure that nobody really knows for sure, so I'm not going to be quickly offended by someone's interpretation.
Erin

[Drtooth]

I have to say, a lot of the complaints don't hold too much water.

Innuendo... I counted 5, 2 from pepe, and one from a human in a longer string of jokes. Even still, it was very very mild! I've heard worse on kid's shows. One in particular, the hero said something like "(So and So) and her friends can join me! We can have a foursome... for golf!"

Pop culture refferences. Yeah, the NBC placements and camoes sucked, and They were mad to make a Crocodile hunter joke, but come on... it's the writers... they were from the Simpsons, and every five seconds on that show is a pop refference. And Moulin Rouge deserved to be parodied!

The Magic is gone... that is the biggest load of BS and you all know that! The performers give there all, no matter how bad the script is. it's like blaming an actor for a bad script. Not the actor's fault! The writing was much better here than MFS, and I would rather see more films like this than KSY, or those preschool videos (even the ones Jim made). The magic is still there! They give 110% to their performances, writing doesn't count. And saying they died with Jim... I can't even dignify that with a responce! :eek: If they did die, they'd cancell Sesame Street, they wouldn't do anything, and we'd just be all here saying "Remember that episode? that was a great episode. Too bad they can't make more!"

Personally, VMC is the best telefilm I've ever seen. And though it's not the Muppet Movie or Follow that Bird, it's definately much better than "You're as Funny as Fozzie Bear!"

[pachalafaka]

I have to agree with Dr. Tooth.

I think Very Merry Muppet Christmas and Muppets from Space represent a new dawn for the Muppets and the very slightly more adult tone is more appropriate to that.

If the Muppets had continued to make movies like Muppet Treasure Island, I think they would have got stale.

To be honest, first time I saw VMMC, I didn't notice that it was a bit risque. I just found it funny.

[jediX]

I don't believe this is the first time Muppets have attempted being edgy post-Jim. Back in the late 80's, the Jim Henson Hour was edgy (such as Kermit [jokingly] saying he would show 'maybe a little sex' to boost the 'ratings'). Once Jim passed away, they sort of went to "comfort" projects, IE Treasure Island & Christmas Carol. Neither of which pushed any major barriers such as the difference between The Muppet Show and Jim Henson Hour. After a while they began pushing the barriers again by attempting to appeal to the more adult audience, seeing as people began seeing them as children's entertainment rather than entertainment for everyone which JHH and many of the other projects done when Jim was still with us. Muppets Tonight sort of went towards the 'edgy' factor by doing things such as introducing a somewhat sexual character (Spamela) and the Tales From the Vet sketch where Dr. Phil gets drunk on egg nog at the holiday party. Frankly, I think The Muppet Show could have gone on for several seasons past 5, had Jim and the crew WANTED to do that many. I don't believe Muppets Tonight was phased out because they didn't want to make it, but moreso because they couldn't find an audience. That show was moved around more than any show I can think of, frankly. Friday nights, Sunday nights, then moved to Disney Channel, and moved around all the time there. TMS had its audience, MT just couldn't find its. The other reason I believe this series failed is because it attempted edginess (there were quite a few scenes on there that were VERY edgy when compared to the "feelgood" films of the mid 90's. One that comes to mind is probably THE funniest scene in the series, when Bobo is trying to seduce Cindy Crawford and says the wrong information from Rizzo.) that just wasn't targeted properly. I was in 5th grade at the time MT came out, and I thought it was absolutely hilarious...I guess not too many non-Muppet fans thought the same.

It's 3AM, I'm exhausted, so I'll finish up this rant. This rumored "Muppet Oz" is nothing more than a step backwards to the days of MTI and MCC. Yes, Muppets have made quite a lot of progress towards the direction they were headed in the late 80's.

Muppets HAVN'T lost their magic. It may seem that way because you might not be a child seeing it for the first time (no special effects impress me anymore -- cgi killed that) but a child seeing this stuff for the first time would have a similar feeling we all did the fist time we saw Muppets. And you also have to remember, the genius Jerry Juhl DID NOT write this film. I believe it lacked that feeling other Muppet films have because of that very reason. The characters still have the magic they always have.

Ok, I seriously need some sleep. lol

[Drtooth]

If we want to get technical, the first Edgy Muppet project for adults was of course the Land of Gorch segments on the first season of SNL! :zany:

>>I think Very Merry Muppet Christmas and Muppets from Space represent a new dawn for the Muppets and the very slightly more adult tone is more appropriate to that.

If the Muppets had continued to make movies like Muppet Treasure Island, I think they would have got stale.<<

exactly! That's why I'm hoping up and down at MupOz. not only is it a step backward, but it's a giant leap in the WRONG direction. They have to follow a story line that someone else made up, with only minor changes. The Muppets play third string to humans, and they feel more like children's movies overall. Though I would have to say MTI was pretty good... much better than MCC...

[Chinchilla]

Is is just me, or did this year's airing of AVMMCM have some scenes changed from last year? These are the things I remember which seemed different...

-did the guitar-playing Gonzo in the mall last year have a "tap-dancing brick" sidekick that was missing this year?

- did the riverdancing electric mayhem rehersal degenerate into a fistfight last year instead of just keeling over this year?

the followwing are things I am less certain of...

-in the scene where Pepe was telling everyone how he got the theatre registered as an historic site, last year I thought he was still wearing the suit & tie, this year he was in a green sweatshirt?

-in the scene where Pepe tells Ms. Betterman he wants to work for money instead of stardust...last year I heard him say "starbucks" and this year I thought I heard him clearly say "stardust" (which made the following latte joke kind of out of place)?

So, am I totally mistaken? I couldn't figure out why they'd go to the trouble of reshooting/dubbing over those scenes anyway... :confused:

[Drtooth]

No... everything was exactly the same.

[jorwick]

I didn't think Whoopi was 'dispassionate and uncaring' as God. I think her portrayal of God showed a Creator who deeply cares, but doesn't get involved in the day to day details of our lives. Only when something goes beyond our ability to change or cope does She step in. This is a very common modern concept of God.

Like I said. I didn't get through the whole thing yet.. but if you contrast the beginning scene where an Angel is trying to convice God to look at Kermit, with the beginning scene in "Its a Wonderful Life" where the Angels are proactively sending help, it sets up an image that is less than compassionate.
Maybe the modern view of God IS that of the disinterested clock maker, but that is in direct opposition to the story of Christmas. Sending your son to be die for the salvation of Mankind is DIRECT involvement - that is the story of Christmas, and that is why I felt the portrayal was out of wack and inappropriate.

I, too, was bothered by the topless thing. The joke didn't work, and stepped over the line for me. But that was one line in the entire show.

Actually, I laughed out loud at the joke till it clocked in for me I was watching with my Child. Its not that I think that the Muppets should never make such jokes or use innuendo, but since this particular forum was a Chirstmas Special, and it came without warning (you know-- like the one they put on before South Park) it seems pretty inappropriate. I haven't had time to sit down and watch it by myself, and when I do, I will probably find it very funny. But part of the strength of the old muppets was that both Adults and Children could be entertained. I know, the clock can't be turned back, but that doesn't mean the goals of the production company should change.

Oh, well, to each his own I guess. I am just sorry that another venue for "Family Entertainment" seems to have fallen into confusion about what is appropriate and what isn't, and so a degree where I have to start editing it for content.