Fun-4-All may produce Sesame Street Action Figures [Archive]

Fozzie Bear

10-27-2003, 03:50 PM

Hiya!

Hey, you guys'll have some big shoes to fill after the whole Palisades thing (I grade all things I buy based on their figures now).

I have a question: When you say "stylized," what do ya mean?

Furthermore and hitherto (heh heh), I'd definitely buy a line of Sesame Street action figures, but I'd like to offer up some advice right now that I think you'll find the rest of the Muppets Fan Community will be in agreement with: Make the figures in scale to the Palisades figures. You'll definitely make the sales on these SS figures you desire!

Palisades has us spoiled on the details, so I expect that you'll be putting textures into the figures, including the clothing?

Are you also going to make the people characters with some resemblance to teh actual folks on the show? What about the 123 Sesame Street brownstone building? Any playsets?

I think that's all the worries and wants I have as a necessity to the SS figures line.

NOW:
Of course we'd want the following with their proper accessories:
-Big Bird (large scale toy) and his nest, including Radar the Bear and Mr. Hooper drawing.
-Ernie with Rubber Duckie and Drum Set, chair, tv
-Bert with Bernice the Pigeon, paper clip and/or bottle cap collection, chair
-Snuffy (could be done as a small plush) with some cabbages (don't forget he has a mom and sister, Baby Alice, too)
-Oscar the Grouch with his trash can, elephant snout--and making him be able to come out of his can and/or crouch down in the can would be awesome. The lid of the can should be able to be closed.
-Count Von Count with bats, cloth cape, and chair
-Cookie Monster with cookies, cookie jar (while jointed with a swivel neck, his mouth could dump cookies into his tummy when you put them in there?)
-Grover Monster (dunno what could come here)
-Waiter Grover (with table, spaghetti, menu, and towel over arm)
-Fat Blue with chair and items from the restaurant
-Super Grover, with magnetic helmet that closes over his eyes, cloth cape
-Elmo with Dorothy and some Elmo's World schtick (for lack of better ideas)
-Herry Monster with dumbbells and doll
-Prairie Dawn with piano
-Zoe with the Zoe mobile
-Guy Smiley with Beat the Clock clock
-The Amazing Mumford with magnetic hat, rabbit, magic hat stand
-Pink and Blue Martians, phone, book-book-book
-Twiddle Bugs (multi pack)

Others in the list would be cool to see is Roosevelt Franklin, Farley, Papa Bear, Mama Bear, and Baby Bear, Barkley, Grungetta, REPORTER KERMIT THE FROG (WITH THE HAT!), Countess Von Backwards, Hoots the Owl, Benny Bunny, Stinky the Stinkweed, Betty Lou, Bip Bipadotta (Mahna-Mahna with sunglasses), Don Music, Gladys the Cow, Biff, Sully, The Two-Headed Monster, Forgetful Jones, The Salesman "Hey, bud!", Sam the Robot...

Fozzie Bear

10-27-2003, 03:53 PM

He posted a response to Nate while I've been sitting here typing.

Philo--he said around the same scale and price as Palisades figures.

Whatever

10-27-2003, 04:02 PM

There isn't much for me to add, but I love that dog with the orangs and white fur too (I forgot the name, such an idiot) :)

Whatever

10-27-2003, 04:15 PM

Wait! The two-headed Monster! We need him (them?) too!

Fozzie Bear

10-27-2003, 04:22 PM

I forgot to post Telly and Frazzle Monsters.

floydnjanicefan

10-27-2003, 04:41 PM

BJC899

10-27-2003, 04:46 PM

Wow, S1 sounds amazing! I wish I could see the picutures.

My top 10 would be:
-Bert
-Ernie
-Big Bird
-Grover
-Count Von Count
-Elmo
-Oscar
-Zoe
-Cookie Monster
-Telly

:D

Philo and Gunge

10-27-2003, 05:02 PM

Once again, my mother won't let me buy them.

She NEVER lets me buy SS merchandie. When I wanted to get "Put Down The Duckie" on DVD, but she would't let me. But my brother got "Monster Hits", he is younger.

The Count

10-27-2003, 05:35 PM

Philo, what do you mean your mom won't buy you your Sesame Street stuff? That's negative discrimination!

Whatever, the name of the dog you're thinking of is Barkley. His name was going to be Woof-Woof, but a bunch of the grown-ups voted and it became Barkley instead.

Ben, I wish I could see the pictures of the figures too, but then again, there's my blindness stopping me from enjoying the pics.
As for this figure line, I'm marginally skeptical and might not end up being satisfied until I find them in the stores next year, buy one, and start playing with it to see if it reaches the same level of loving care as Palisades' Muppets figures.
Got a wishlist of figures too, but I'll leave that for later.
Hope this helps and have a haunted day.

Philo and Gunge

10-27-2003, 05:38 PM

I meant to say that she won't let me buy SS stuff with MY money.

Drtooth

10-27-2003, 05:50 PM

Other than the ones released, my top 10...

Telly monster
Herry Monster
Don Music
Frazzle
Sherlock Hemlock
Gladys the cow
Forgetful Jones
Martians (yip yips)
Benny Rabbit
Waiter Grover

WiGgY

10-27-2003, 06:35 PM

I would like to announce that Fun-4-All corp., will be producing a Sesame Street Action Figure line (due out March 2004)!!! They are going to be a little more stylized than Palisades' Muppets line, but they will have the same level of detail, articulation, and quality. Next year is the 35th anniversary of Sesame Street, so this line is coming out at the perfect time! We have plans to do all of the coolest characters down the line.... So please let me know who all of your favorite characters are! I definitely would appreciate all the comments and feedback I can get. I really want to make this toy line a success, and being a fellow collector, I think I can give you guys what you want.

Well, I have some feedback based on the prototype pictures I have seen. To be honest I'm a little dissappointed. I have a problem with the following issues.

1. Articulation. If these pictures are any indication the articulation of these figures is lackings. The arms are swivel cuts instead of ball jointed shoulders. To me, that is a big dissappointment. Also the leg articulation is lacking. No knee joints or ankle swivels. No t crotch on Bert or Ernie. Oscar doesn't appear to have any articulation at all. I wouldn't really call these fully articulated.

2. Sculpts. The sculpts are pretty good actually. They all seem to be a little bit off, but not bad. The only one that I just about hate is Bert. It's all wrong. The puppet's eye brow can't even go into that position. Also, he is preposed and doesn't seem to be able to go into any natural poses. Again this is in part due to lack of certain articulation points. Cookie Monster having a cookie sculpted into his hand is dissappointing as well and having Oscar sculpted into his can with a scram sign sculpted into the can is a bit dissappointing as well. He seems to be more of a PVC figure than an action figure.

3. Colors. Cookie is a bit too light but other than that all the colors look ok to me.

4. Likeness compared to the puppets. Even though the sculpts looks good for 3 out of 4 of the figures, there is a lack of puppet likeness. All of the figures seem to be based on cartoon drawings of the characters instead of the actual puppets. I can see why this approach would be used for Cookie Monster, but I don't see why this approach was used to sculpt the others. Basically they are detailed figures based off of cartoons Sesame Street characters, but they don't have that puppet look. Maybe additional texture and less exagerated sculpts would fix that.

5. Accessories. None are shown and no mention of accessories has been made. I'm hoping that some fantastic and realistic accressories are made, especially if the price will be that of the palisades figures.

Sorry for the brutal honesty, but I'm hoping there is time to fix any if not all of this perceived problems.

pxlforge

10-27-2003, 06:43 PM

My top 10 Sesame Muppets are as follows...

Bert
Ernie
Cookie Monster
Oscar the Grouch
Prarie Dawn
Sherlock Hemlock
Big Bird
Grover
Count von Count
Guy Smiley
[/QUOTE]

These 10 would make me a happy collector

Luke

10-27-2003, 06:45 PM

Congratulations on the license. I wondered if these will be aimed at speciality collectors or more at mass retail ? Also will you be producing exclusives and chase figures ? Other than that, welcome to the forum, you definitely came to the right place for big Sesame/Muppets fans.

MuppetFan123

10-27-2003, 06:54 PM

Here are my ideas for figures,playsets,varients and boxed sets based on various sketches from Sesame Street...Feel free to comment or add to it.

Figures with possible Accessories:

Guy Smiley with microphone,Large Nose,and a Letter

The Honkers - preferably a Green,Blue and Pink one with noses that honk

Amazing Mumford with removeable cape & hat, magic table stand and magic hat with rabbit and a peanut butter sandwich

Don Music with piano and beethoven bust

Herry Monster with red & white striped pants as seen in various books,teddy bear and barbell

Frazzle with real fur, tounge hanging out of mouth and chain around neck

Lefty the Salesman with jacket that opens to revel the Letter O

Bruno with either a grip on hand to hold Oscar or a small Oscar in can comes with figure

The Count with removeable cape,pipe organ,bats and a number

Characters I can't think of accessories for:

The Big Bad Wolf - seen in many segments on Sesame Street
Sam the Robot
Betty Lou
Barkley
Granny Bird
Harvey Kneeslapper

Special Editions/Varients/Exclusives
Bathtub/Rubber Duckie Ernie with towel,tub with bubbles,scrub brush, and rubber duckie

Alistaire Cookie with chair,pipe and various books

Bathtub Brad with Uncle Bert and bathtub toys

Box Set
Follow That Bird featuring Miss Finch & The Dodos
Little Jerry &The Monotones with phone booth,the #4,microphones and instruments
Chrissy &The Alphabets

Playsets:

Construction Playset with Biff & Sully

Ernie & Berts Bedroom/Living Room with Beds,Chairs,drumset and bedtime Ernie and Bert in pajamas and 2 sheep

Tweedlebug House with Tweddlebug Family and large stamp and Tweddlebug car

Moon Playset with the Yup Yup Martians and Elmo,Ernie and Cookie Monster in space outifts from either their song or skit about the moon

Snuffleupagus Cave with Snuffy and Alice

Wild Wild West Saloon with either Cowyboy Elmo,Wild West Grover,Sinister Sam,Bad Bart,Forgetful Jones and Buster the Horse

King Prawn

10-27-2003, 07:38 PM

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is fantastic, I hoped to start saving for a Car next year but I can't see my self driving in one next year, I'm going to go broke and in a way I love it.

My ten choices would have to be (apart from those in Series 1)

1) Big Bird -How can you not have him-
2) The Count -my all time fave character-
3) Regular Grover
4) The Two-Headed Monster
5) Sherlock Helmlock
6) Telly
7) Snuffalopigus (Sp?)
8) Honkers!!!!!!!!!!!
9) Elmo
10) Waiter Grover

Luke

10-27-2003, 07:46 PM

That reminds me, will they be available in Europe, and through what distributor ?

pxlforge

10-27-2003, 07:52 PM

did he ever answer about the scale of these figures (in comparison to Palisades Muppets)

Crazy Harry

10-27-2003, 08:04 PM

There are prototype photos? Where?

If they are prototypes, there's a chance a lot will be changed before release.

frogboy4

10-27-2003, 08:04 PM

I'll probably pick up Oscar and a few of them if they look very good, but being that I'm primarily a Muppet Show fan these would have to be stunning. I'm disappointed that Palisades didn't get the license. I've yet to see anything that matches the quality. Hope these turn out great.

Will Oscar be removable from his garbage can? Will he come with Slimey? What is the tentative shelf date for these?

Aerosmith

10-27-2003, 08:19 PM

Will he come with Slimey?

Slimey is in the pic of the Oscar proto.

King Prawn

10-27-2003, 08:24 PM

Guys, I already sent him my top ten choicesb ut he's probably resting up, can you imagine all the email the poor guy must have gotten in like an hour :eek:

Anyway could osmeone email me the pics please, I want to comment on them and I really want to see them, please Fantasia_x@hotmail.com

thanks

frogboy4

10-27-2003, 08:26 PM

Oooh! I love slimey. He's so cute. Thanks for the heads up. Wish I could see these pics. :grouchy:

King Prawn

10-27-2003, 08:26 PM

oh ooh ooh oh :excited: now all we need are some Fraggle Figures :smirk: :excited: :smirk: :excited:

If we do get Fraggle's, I swear i'm gonna take a really nice realistic Muppety pic of a few of them together and make my own MFC cover (I could never understand why only the Muppets (well Muppet Show characters) were on it.

Crazy Harry

10-27-2003, 09:23 PM

Where are these pics you all speak of?

King Prawn

10-27-2003, 09:28 PM

Could someone link us the pics?

I doubt it's a secret like the Series 7 collectors club issue.

I wanna see how these things look like :p :( :grouchy: and not forgetting Cookie and Grover

floydnjanicefan

10-27-2003, 09:38 PM

Are Telly, Snuffy, Herry, Guy Smiley, Two Headed Monster, Biff and Sully, the Count, and Honkers all part of Series 2 and 3 or are they just a list of things that are to come eventually and some others may come first? Personally, I hope that these figures are Series 2 and 3. They are all great characters...

Also, how frequently are new series going to be released? Every two months, every four months, etc?

frogboy4

10-27-2003, 09:52 PM

These aren't bad at all, but they are the usual cartoon representations we are used to seeing. It is heresy to even mention these and Palisades in the same breath. I didn't see any layers etc and they have the usual swivel articulation. Palisades wouldn't sculpt Oscar inside his can and stick Slimy on it. They'd all be separate pieces. His brow would probably have articulation. It's just when someone says Palisades, I expect a lot.

These are cute. I'll buy a couple. Just not stoked about them. Fun, but not extraordinary. They just look like PVCs to me. I've seen this kind of stuff in stores before. :p :(

King Prawn

10-27-2003, 10:19 PM

Well i've just seen the pics (thanks to Jamie) and they look good, not wanting to make anyone feel bad but i'm glad those aren't the final sculpt's.

Anyway i've just realised I know Sesame Street have a large appeal towards both parents and customers and truthfuly these have a better chance than selling than the Muppets, not saying they will, just that they're in the publics eye, they've been there for what now 35 years. So finding collectors for these figures won't be hard but was it really wise to realese so many main hitters on the first wave.

Maybe leave Cookie, Grover and Oscar for another wave and have found a pattern.

Series 1

Ernie -Old main character-
Bert -Old main character-
Elmo -New main character-
Sherlock Helmlock -Secondary character- (if you can call him that)
Crazy Harry -fan fave-

Series 2

Cookie Monster -Old Main character-
Count -Old Main Character-
Rosita -New Main character-
Betty Lou -Secondary character-
Guy Smiley -fan fave-

not that i'm complaining or anything, just thinking about the future.

Aerosmith

10-27-2003, 10:51 PM

Crazy Harry is from the Muppet Show and Palisades already made him. :crazy:

matleo

10-27-2003, 11:34 PM

I too have seen the pics and quite frankly, I think there are some rumors that need to be disspelled here.

First of all, these are Sesame Street figures and like it or not you have to design them with the very real possibility that 4 and 5 years old kids WILL want them and parents will buy them for 4 and 5 year old kids. Even if the target audience is people like Warrick, Quinn, etc. there is going ot be that cross over. So I think people kind of need to keep that in mind when thinking about these figures.

now with that in mind, let's disspell with the "this will be the same level as Palisades" rumor right off the bat. That's not possible. Yes, the articulation would have to be 'dumbed down' a bit. No, you can't really do slimey as a whole seperate accessory cause there'd be a serious choking hazard. let's think of it this way. Compring the Muppet Show figures to the SS figures would be like comparing the Muppet Show to Sesame Street. Similarities? Sure, but a whole lotta difference. So I think both we and fun-4-all would do the line a great service by trying to avoid the obvious comparison of the two lines and just let it stand on it's own. Easy? no, but I think we should give it try.

Furthermore, let's remember that what we are reacting to are prototypes. it says clearly on it "not final figure". Anybody rememebr the first time we saw the pupil-less Dr. teeth? the toilet-head Animal? The entire Series 3? Johnny Fiamma before jamie did the turnarounds? So while I have some doubts abtu the curren pics I've seen, I'm also hopeful that the fun-4-all will amek the right decisions in improving these figures so that while they may not be "the same level as Palisades" they will certainly "have a quality that stands on it's own".

So bearing that in mind, let me say I like what I see right now. it's nice. but I think there's a lot of room for improvment. right now they have a lot of charm to them, but I don't think I would buy every single one. out of the 5 right now, the way they stand now, I'd buy Oscar and grover. they're not perfect reproductions of the figures but they're okay. However, if as the rep from fun4all says they will be the same price as Palisades, I don't think I could really justify the Oscar figure. He really is just a PVC at this point and I don;t see where they could add the articulation to that sculpt.

ok, so what's would get me on board with the others? mainly fixing bert. I think he's the one I have the biggest problem with. While I think it's cool to go all stylized and whatever, Bert seems a bit too overstylized. (warning: palisades related comparison about to happen) you know how we keep asking about a "disgruntled face kermit" fig from Palisades and ken keeps saying 'no'. bert is a perfect example of why this is a bad idea. I'd much rather see bert a little happier. Smiling. that face looks like an emoticon one finds on a computer screen >:-/ it just doesn;t work. the nose is also worng too. I thnk it's too round. bert's nose is ovular. That...that might be enough ti get me on board for both Bert and Ernie. ernie isn't bad. maybe they could strengthen his dimples abit more. maybe give him a bot more hair. and maybe fix the eyes a little, but he's pretty good. I definitly wouldn't buy ernie without Bert and I defninitely wouldn't buy that Bert. Ernie is a possibility for me if Bert were little better.

I tihnk my biggest problem with cookie right now is the aint job. It's a little too light. I think this is another scenario where Henson/CTW /whoever has PMS specs that have been handed down through the ages and are 100% WRONG!! it's like a pink-headed Animal or a Blue-nosed Gonzo, or a yellow haird Piggy. it just doesn't actually exist except in the minds of Henson's licensing division. I think he could be a bit darker. Also I think the eyes are bit too big.

As I said I liek Grover, but if I were going to change somethign on him, It would be the legs. Grover's legs aren't that big, but I can see where this is something that might have to be cheated in order to get the thing to stand up right. Again I have some small problems with the colorign but not enough to really bother me. I mean, it'll pass.

In conclusion, I wish this line success. I don't think I will be as manic abot his as I am for Palisades BUt I didn't thikn I would be as manic for Palisadesas I am for palisades so things can change. I am eager to see what the future holds for this line. Could be a lot of fun.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

--Matt

frogboy4

10-28-2003, 12:36 AM

King Prawn

10-28-2003, 04:53 AM

Crazy Harry is from the Muppet Show and Palisades already made him. :crazy:

That's what I get for writting at 5:00 a.m. (I was waiting to see pictures of these guys)

Anyway I meant Herry Monster :o

Luke

10-28-2003, 06:22 AM

These appear to have been dumbed down for the 2-4 year old crowd. That's been the primary problem I've seen with this license. The truth is that these aren't that brave and different as stated.

I have mixed feelings on all this. I agree with you that comparing these with the Palisades stuff is like comparing chalk with cheese, but then again with the Sesame license I don’t think it would have been a good idea if they had been done the ‘Palisades Way’. The Muppets figures are much more specialist collector orientated - mainly because the Muppets are more a nostalgic thing nowadays and the kids are the secondary market. With Sesame, the brand is much more current and still very popular with kids - they WILL want these, there is no question about it so I think Fun-4-All have taken the right approach in this case. It would be a mistake to do them in Palisades detail, with all the articulation and tiny pieces which would be popular with the adult collectors but ultimately lead to safety problems with very tiny kids. I think dumbing down to an extent is the right thing to do, with these it seems the adult collectors are not the primary target so it’s cool for them to just reach a good compromise (ie:- some articulation, some obscure characters thrown in at some point) to get the nostalgic adults into the line too as an extra consumer base. Obviously people here are so used to Palisades now that it’s going to be hard not to compare, and some people will be dissapointed - especially when the toy company itself makes the comparison early on. As long as people ‘get’ that Sesame figures are different to Muppet figures in exactly the same way the shows are different and targetted it should work out.

frogboy4

10-28-2003, 07:06 AM

My point was that if you read the first post in this thread *they* are the ones that made the comparison - likening their figures to Palisades. I agree with a lot of what you've said. Think I stated all of that in my previous post.

I've been skeptical about Palisades getting the SS license because of the kiddie market factor. However, if these will be at an $8.99+ SRP as mentioned, most parents of tots will pass. The real main market for these is over five anyway. Why would a parent pay so much for a slightly articulated figure when there are plenty of SS PVCs available at a cheaper price with this same cartoon look? It's really a sticky situation either way you look at it, but people of all sorts will buy anything Sesame.

matleo

10-28-2003, 07:40 AM

Yeah I totally agree. I don't think it would have been wise to do these the Palisades way. I think even if Palisades had done it, they would have lowered their 'quality level' to a certain extent. Like I said, I don't think you'd see as many small accessories that could be easily lost or swallowed and I don't think you'd se as much articulation. Don't ask me ot explain my fellings on the articulaion thig. it's justa gut felling. I think the articulation would be kept a bit simpler (more like Fozzie for charactars w/o clothes. More like Scooter for characters with clothes) Anyway, I think it's good to branch away form Palisades a bit where this line us concerned.

but this is where what jamie says is true. If you're going to branch away form that, be honest about it. be up front about. Stand up and say, " we can't be the Palisades guys for obvious reasons" but we hope you'll accept us just as much" I don't think it's a good idea for a company to come in here and start touting how great their product will be. it's not good for the company (you're setting yourself up there), and not good for the forum (we discuss Muppets here. We don't sell them). If they want to come in and say "hey, we're working on this. What do you think?" that's fine. Like I said, this is a discussion and I think a company will go a lot further here by asking our input than telling us we will see it, we will like it.

It's funny cause if a licensor comes in here and sees all the nicey-nice stuff we've said about Palissades and the open dialogue we have with them, they may think that's how we are with all licensors. Except, what they don't see is how much resistance even Ken has had with us at times or the handful of other licensors (who will remain nameless) who say "You're going to love this" and then get disappointed when we don't. How great something is is for us to decide: the customer, the fan base. For me, I think THAT's one of the main things that has set Palisades apart from other companies.

Having said all that, I am optimistic that this company is asking for feedback on which characters we like. I think it's great that they want to follow Palisades example a wee bit and do some older more obscure characters. but I also hope they can also stand on their own feet and say when they aren't/can't be Palisades. I also hope that Mr. Diresta doesn't feel too offended by any of the comments here. I welcome him as much as I welcome anyone else to this forum. And I look forward to a dialog about where this line as going and how it's doing. I'm actually kind of eager to see his response to our reactions. For me, that's really going to set me one way or the other on this line right now.

That's my 2 cents for now.

--Matt

Fozzie Bear

10-28-2003, 08:06 AM

Is anybody who has the picture going to post the picture somewhere for us to see?

I think it's okay to dumb things down for kids, but in reality while many parents are going to buy these things for their kids you have to realize that there is a much larger market for collectors, and even though it's still strong SS is very nostalgic and is marketable in that direction (Sesame Unpaved, anyone?), and lots of adults--when facing an item to purchase and seeing much of what they remember as a kid--will jump at the chance to grab these toys up.

I have some SS action figures from years ago--in the 80's--and they were okay. Big Bird, Oscar, Bert, Ernie, Cookie and Grover. Big Bird swivels at the neck, shoulders, waist; Oscar pops up and down in his can and it locks--push the sides and his head pops up; T joints in the crotch of both, but Bert and Ernie also had swivel necks and shoulders; cookie had a cookie in his hand (a YELLOW cookie!) and swivelled at the neck, shoulders, hips; Grover was rubberized and had bendy arms and legs. How'd they compare in likness to the characters? they were okay, but nothing to write home about.

I'm very curious to see these pictures, and can't wait to hear from our friend from Fun 4 All.

Phillip Chapman

10-28-2003, 08:23 AM

Is anybody who has the picture going to post the picture somewhere for us to see?
The pics will be up on MC a little bit later today. I will post in this thread once they are on-line.

Chad Kermit

10-28-2003, 08:25 AM

I have a question: When you say "stylized," what do ya mean?
My question too Kev. I hope Stylized does not mean they are based moore on the cartoon-like illustrations of the characters and not the puppets. That they are paying attention to coloring is a good sign. I wonder too if accessories will be true to the show over the years. Be neat to get Muppet Alphabet letters and Guy Smiley with some of the "object" game show participants or characters with an Anything Muppet pack-in. Know one thing for sure if they are the same size as Palisades (which would be too perfect almost to believe) reporter Kermit could be reporting some new Muppet News Flashes. As much SS stuff that has been sounds like they have the opportunity to make a product that pushes other stuff aside. I hope they are better packed than the company that makes the Gremlins action figures and Christmas Story action figures. The accessorties with both are limited and not very good. Don't think I can keep MOC of SS too with the Palisades. Will run out of room. LOL

Fozzie Bear

10-28-2003, 08:37 AM

Hiya, Chad. Seems from prior posts that 'stylized' does mean cartoony. As far as what the others are saying (and I need to see it to make a judgement) the figures are not nearly as detailed or articulated as Palisades, and our Fun 4 All informant stated that it would be close to the scale of Palisades. Unfortunately, they already began their S.1 figures and didn't consult the fanbase first which Ken and Company did do.

I'm interested to see these pics, so thanks for getting them up, Phil!

Luke

10-28-2003, 09:35 AM

Unfortunately, they already began their S.1 figures and didn't consult the fanbase first which Ken and Company did do

Actually Ken did more or less exactly the same thing with S1 and had it mostly all pre-planned and in some early stage of production. We had more influence on the S2 and S3 sculpts here. Also, with these priced and marketed right, I wouldn't say the collectors base is larger than the kiddie one. I would guess the two are very similar in size for Sesame and the trick is to get both buying the stuff. It would depend where they are stocked i guess - will it be more comic shoips or more TRU ?

Jamie - I was agreeing with you really ( I know it's not often - ha !). Fun-4-All didn't do themselves any favors by making that Palisades comparison themselves and should maybe have gone for the explanation that these are made for a broader audience. To reach that i'd also agree the price needs to come down to about $5-6. I don't see a big need for accessories with Sesame Street characters so maybe that's the key.

pdiresta

10-28-2003, 10:17 AM

Are their going to be any playsets? Also, I saw the pictures of the first wave and they look great... I really love Oscar and Grover. But I have a few questions about the figures

-Can you tell us the approximate height of each of the five figures?
-Would it be possible to add texturing on the faces of Ernie and Bert to give them the puppet look?
-Is Ernie going to come with a Rubber Duckie?
-Is Bert going to come with Bernice the pigeon?

That is all of the questions that I have for now... Thanks

All the figures will be texturized (alla the muppets figures)
they will all come with a "sesame street" base,
proper accessories: ernie-rubber duckie and a banana.
bert- bernice, cookiemonster- cookies, and a tea cup etc....
***they will all also come with a letter character (with eyes),
that is about 2 1/2"!!!
Ernie comes with an "E", cookie a "C", grover a "G", and bert a "W"??? ... figure it out guys.

The Count

10-28-2003, 10:19 AM

Sorry to be late with this message of greeting, but velcome pdiresta to the vonderful vorld of the Muppets found here at Muppet Central's forum! Sent you my list of figural choices and I hope to hear from you soon. Hope you enjoy your stay here and have a haunted day!

floydnjanicefan

10-28-2003, 10:21 AM

I love the idea of Letter Figures with eyes... That sounds really cool! :p

matleo

10-28-2003, 10:29 AM

Ernie comes with an "E", cookie a "C", grover a "G", and bert a "W"??? ... figure it out guys.

hmmm...I think we've just been told the plan is for 26 figures. Interesting.

--Matt

The Count

10-28-2003, 10:36 AM

Phillip Chapman

10-28-2003, 10:56 AM

Here are the pics and some additional info...

http://www.muppetcentral.com/news/2003/102703.shtml

floydnjanicefan

10-28-2003, 10:57 AM

Thanks for the update on the figures, pdiresta. Asking us to figure out why Bert would come with a W Muppet is asking us to figure out why Ernie would come with a banana. The answer obviously makes reference to Bert as the leader of the W-Lovers Club, though I think a W Muppet would be a better accessory for a figure of Sergeant Thursday and a plain W accessory would be better for Bert himself.
Still waiting for your reply to my E-mail, but I can wait until you have the info requested. Thanks once again and have a haunted day.

Well, actually, I think there is a reason for Bert coming with a W. In one episode, he took Ernie to a W-Lovers fan club. I believe that Bert is the President of the W-Lovers society.

They all sang the W song:
"It's not any trouble-you
know its a double-u
when you here wuh wuh wuh."

Or something like that. Hope that helps... :(

Aaron

10-28-2003, 10:57 AM

sorry to go off topic but phill did you get my email

Phillip Chapman

10-28-2003, 11:02 AM

sorry to go off topic but phill did you get my email
Aaron, yes I did and I will take care of the issue for you immediately. You will need to log in and out of the forum to post again.

Baby Animal

10-28-2003, 11:07 AM

Well, by judging from the prototypes, unfortunately, they look like glorified happy meal toys at this point. I think it's the swivle joints. The figures look pretty good, but the articulation looks really iffy. I know basing everything off of prototypes isn't smart, but at this point, even S1 Piggy looks better. Hoping they get better.

Aaron

10-28-2003, 11:08 AM

Aaron, yes I did and I will take care of the issue for you immediately. You will need to log in and out of the forum to post again. Thanks Boss

floydnjanicefan

10-28-2003, 11:11 AM

I really like the lineup for Series 2 - Guy Smilely, Two Headed Monster, Telly, Big Bird, and the Count. It sounds awesome. I think Fun-4-All has a good lineup planned: Start with all major characters in Series 1 to get people interested and then in the next Series put out some of the less known characters. I can't wait until March...

pxlforge

10-28-2003, 11:23 AM

and they were better than I thought They'd be (having read a lot of your issues with them). I do agree that these "not final sculpt" prototypes still appear to leave something to be desired (when compared to Palisades Muppets). Mr. Diresta does say "they will have the same level of detail, articulation, and quality" as Palisades' Muppets line. That is a tall order to fill. And Palisades fans are even rough on Palisades. The Muppets line arrives so close to perfect that its fanbase feels they have the right to demand nothing less than 100% show accurate likenesses. Its going to be a bit rough getting too much praise from this crowd without some more work.

Comments/Questions for Fun-4-All corp...

First let me say how happy I am to see these getting made... but

Detail: Detail looks OK on most would have to see higher resolution shots to see the texture, etc. - but I'd really want to see more realism with Oscar's can.

Articulation: does "same level of articulation" mean you'll be adding knee, elbow, hands and feet articulation? and Oscar would have to be removeable form his can.

Quality: the articulation that is visible is TOO visible. Arm and leg joints are hidden better in Palisades line.

The "stylization" doesn't bother me as much as others, but then I haven't studies the likenesses as seriously either.

in closing a good start - but keep refining - and i think making them look more puppets would be a good idea.

MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT COMPARING THE LINE TO THE MUPPETS - are they in scale with Palisades Muppets???

Fozzie54

10-28-2003, 11:32 AM

The Honkers - preferably a Green,Blue and Pink one with noses that honk

And the baby honker that hatches from his egg! :excited:

Phillip Chapman

10-28-2003, 11:36 AM

MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT COMPARING THE LINE TO THE MUPPETS - are they in scale with Palisades Muppets???
Yes they will be in scale with one another. This has been said in several different places.

floydnjanicefan

10-28-2003, 11:53 AM

hmmm...I think we've just been told the plan is for 26 figures. Interesting.

--Matt

Well, they could always do Muppet numbers too...

Aaron

10-28-2003, 11:56 AM

cool

King Prawn

10-28-2003, 12:00 PM

Will they be to scale with the Muppet action figures?

just kidding, seriousley I'm not a big SS fan but i'm really excited about this, I can't wait for March to roll by, we'll have Series 7 of Palisades Muppet Figures and Series 1 of Fun-4-All's SS line.

One question for Mr. pdiresta, is the Cookie in Cookie Monsters hand sculpted onto it or is it an accessory?

thanks

pdiresta

10-28-2003, 12:01 PM

Hey all,
Thanks for all the feedback! WOW.... lots of comments to go over.
You all make excellent points. But please remember this is still the first sculpts (they are still just clay, and don't have much of the articulation yet) We want this line to be more of a compliment to your muppet collection (ie: the Palisades Toys), not a line that is in direct competition, or pretending to be the same toy line. The comments about being "as good as Palisades" have gotten blown way out of proportion. We were just comparing the fact that they will have similar texturing, articulation, around the same scale, and quality detailed sculpting with great accessories and slick packaging.
Yes these figures will need to be attractive to parents and children younger than us... BUT, we're still going to try and put out a quality product that is fun and cool. We decided to go with a little more stylized look so they ARE different that the current Muppets line... So we obviously aren't doing the same thing. They will be cool on their own, or as the children's version of the Muppets...which they are.
ps: THE COOKIE IS AN ACCESSORY...It's not sculpted in his hand :)

floydnjanicefan

10-28-2003, 12:14 PM

Do you know how tall a Big Bird figure would be? Would he be about nine inches tall, or would you shrink him down a little?

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 12:33 PM

I totally have to disagree...

I find the sculpts refreshingly stylized. And I gotta say, I'd swear I'd never have seen a Bert figure with that "Hey Baby" expression in my life!

Cookie Monster looks to have just slightly less articulation than the series 2 Fozzie Bear figures. I personally will buy both Palisades Muppet Show and Fun4All Sesame Street action figures. They are both great toy lines, and I absoultely can't wait for them... or to get money to buy them.

These are a refreshing change from the plush dolls that have dominated the market, making Cookie Monster look a lot like a Twiddlebug, all shaven and smooth... and the numerous "Hokey Pokey", "Limbo", and "Chicken Dance" Elmos.

I will no doubt get the complete set!

Fozzie Bear

10-28-2003, 12:49 PM

What made the company decide to base the figures off the SS art? Had you skipped stylized and gone straight for 'true likeness' I would feel better about this line. I was really excited at first, but I think there is a lot of work to be done to these figures before I'll be excited about buying them. Though I might anyhow.

Oh, and I'm happy to hear that the cookie is NOT connected to Cookie's hand.

Also, what is the status on the Oscar figure? Is he connected to his can? What's his playability? Why was there a sign and Slimey stuck to his can? Make those accessories (magnetic sign?) instead. I don't want a sign and Slimey stuck to my Oscar's can. Tell me, please, that you aren't settling on that Cookie Monster! He needs major tweaking.

Again, I'm disappointed that we're only getting figures representative of the cartoons of the puppets rather than a better likness. But, it's only the clay stage, and maybe you can change that?

Please?!

Hat Sharpener

10-28-2003, 12:54 PM

Articulation doesn't really matter to me, and I don't really care what scale they are in - What I would want to see is more accurate likeness to the puppets.

I know it was a conscious decision to go "stylized" but my opinion is that we've had to compromise on likeness in decade after decade of Sesame toys because they were always plush or Fisher Price or cheap PVC's or something. Finally, when you get to a product where you actually CAN create a real likeness, why not do it?

Seems like a bad decision to me. I would probably have bought dozens of Sesame Figures that actually looked like the characters - and by going with "Cartoon" versions I doubt you will be gaining any customers. Even as a kid I remember getting frustrated that my little Bert figure didn't really look like Bert...

So, I'm not ragging on the figures themselves, I just think you went down a road I disagree with.

Besides, does anyone ever remember Oscar with the Lid on his head? Reminds me of the Fisher Price little people version...

- Derek

danielromens

10-28-2003, 01:41 PM

I'd say at this point, they need a lot of work. I think rather than going for a scale similar to palisades, you should maybe make them a little larger and go for rotocast. This way they could be quite detailed, appealing to the collector, and be safe, appealing to the parents of young kids. With limited choke hazard accessories, the price would stay the same. Little kids toys don't need a boat load of accessories as little kids tend to lose that boat load.

As far as likenesses. Um...well...Oscar looks good. I'd cut Bert's head off and start over though. I understand stylizing them to look like the cartoon versions we see on t-shirts, but I don't think that has necessarilly been acheived. The SS characters have always had a softer look and while I see a hint of this with the others, especially Oscar, I don't think Bert has it at all. He looks like an off branded bootleg toy. No offence. Just an opinion.

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 02:00 PM

What made the company decide to base the figures off the SS art?

Probably SW itself. Remember the Inspector Figure? it didn't look like the cartoon Inspector, just one on a movie poster. That's what the Company wants. They probably have to do it that way.

Am I the only one that thinks Cookie Monster looks good? His eyes need to be a touch smaller, but other than that, it's great.

Oscar being in the can is a slight dissappointment, but he's rarely been out of it, so other than the designers, no one knows what the lower part (stomach to crotch, his legs pop out of the can sometimes) looks like.

The Bert's expression is just funny to me. that's why I like it so much... It's like he's flirting!

But Super grover looks the best of them all.

But seriously. I've seen millions of other toy line worse than this.

Look at the Simpsons. They're glorified PVC's that talk. They can cost up to as Much as a Muppet figure, and no one really complains (except for Data Base.. worst figure ever) And The Peanuts line was dissappointing. Hollow heads, extremely limited articulation, bland paint jobs. Both lines are great in their own right, but the Sesame figures, though a far cry from the greatness of Palisades, are much better.

besides... this is probably f4a's first venture into action figures (that I know of) go easy...

frogboy4

10-28-2003, 02:49 PM

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 02:55 PM

To be honest, I'm just not interested in buying cartoon versions of the characters. Frankly it seems more like lack of interest in likeness than stylization. Don’t you guys want to do something different? Cover new ground? Get the proportions right? I’m yet another person who would like these to look more like the puppets. Oscar is cute, but I am quite disappointed in the rest and don’t see any room for improvement in the current sculpts due to the cartoon style and proportions. Just calling it like I see it. Hope you don’t take it as being harsh. I want to see fantastic representations of these characters, but don’t see that with the current path.

I think SW enforces cartoon likenesses of their characters. It's not too obvious with some, but With Cookie Monster and Big Bird (noted mostly for lack of the white feathery poof in his feathers above the space between the eyes, and a shortend beak)

I would love to see Puppet likenesses of these characters, but when it comes down too it, it has to be what SW wants, or it's a moot point any way.

Besides... I just don't understand what's wrong with Grover and Ernie. Cartoon or Puppet, they look alike to me. Cookie is subtly different, but a fine marrage of Puppet and Cartoon likenesses. As long as he's furry, and not the plush smooth shved Twiddlebug that Fisher Price makes.

frogboy4

10-28-2003, 03:05 PM

I think SW enforces cartoon likenesses of their characters. It's not too obvious with some, but With Cookie Monster and Big Bird (noted mostly for lack of the white feathery poof in his feathers above the space between the eyes, and a shortend beak)

I would love to see Puppet likenesses of these characters, but when it comes down too it, it has to be what SW wants, or it's a moot point any way.

Besides... I just don't understand what's wrong with Grover and Ernie. Cartoon or Puppet, they look alike to me. Cookie is subtly different, but a fine marrage of Puppet and Cartoon likenesses. As long as he's furry, and not the plush smooth shved Twiddlebug that Fisher Price makes.

Unless fun4all guy states otherwise, we can't make the assumption that they are not allowed to make puppet likenesses. That's a rather bold assumption. Have you heard official word from Sesame Workshop? From what I gather in the posts, this was fun4all's creative choice.

As an artist I thought you'd see the discrepancies in proportion of these figures. Ernie's torso should be at least twice as long and Cookie looks like a cartoon with oversized marshmallow eyes. He doesn't resemble the puppet. There's an enormous difference between the cartoon and puppet likenesses. I'm still not saying these are bad, but they are far, far from the puppet source material. I hope that changes.

Fozzie Bear

10-28-2003, 03:21 PM

I don't even see a semblance to the cartoon versions. What cartoons were they basing these on? There's the one guy that does the art long ago for the books (Scott used it as a screensaver at his site) that looked good and like the puppets more than these figures do.

pdiresta

10-28-2003, 03:23 PM

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 03:25 PM

Unless fun4all guy states otherwise, we can't make the assumption that they are not allowed to make puppet likenesses. That's a rather bold assumption. Have you heard official word from Sesame Workshop? From what I gather in the posts, this was fun4all's creative choice.

Sorry... it's basically what I surmised with the more current stuff...

the Pez (http://www.collectinghq.com/im/0003133.jpg)

The Fisher Price line (http://www.fisher-price.com/us/sesame/products/thumbnail.asp?cat=preschool&catcode=ss_presch)

stuff like that.

All I'm saying is that the overly furriness of the Tyco plushes didn't deterr me, a few things like Disproportionate torsos (which you rarely see the full thing of anyway) aren't going to stop me. Even if these were 15 bucks a go, I'd still get them... after the Palisades toys of course.

Besides. Every Company makes drastic improvements to the second wave of figures, compaired to the first wave. So If these are good in real life (a lot of things look much better in turn around) the second wave will be great.

Sorry if I seem really defensive... ain't nothing keeping me from a 2 headed monster and a Guy Smiley!

;)

Baby Animal

10-28-2003, 03:26 PM

once again all:
these figures are in their earliest stages. These are the first sculpts that were casted in plastic and painted for Toy Fair last week... They are still in clay form. There have been no revisions, and they are hand painted. They will be much further along when they are officially released: Cleaned up sculpt, texture on the "skin" and clothes, tighter paint jobs, all articulation, accessories...an actual factory sample. I just thought you guys would love the heads up sneek peek! I thank you all for your passion and comments...we will definitely take into account all your feedback so we can put out a really cool product.
I think when you guys see the final package you will be pleasantly surprised.
Having checked out your website, what kind of things can we look forward to there when the construction is done? And what kind of other reference points can we look at to see what kind of quality your company produces? I know I saw Strawberry Shortcake and Care Bears. Do you produce the ones that are currently out in Wal-Marts? And are they going to look more puppet-like?

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 03:28 PM

once again all:
these figures are in their earliest stages. These are the first sculpts that were casted in plastic and painted for Toy Fair last week... They are still in clay form. There have been no revisions, and they are hand painted. They will be much further along when they are officially released: Cleaned up sculpt, texture on the "skin" and clothes, tighter paint jobs, all articulation, accessories...an actual factory sample. I just thought you guys would love the heads up sneek peek! I thank you all for your passion and comments...we will definitely take into account all your feedback so we can put out a really cool product.
I think when you guys see the final package you will be pleasantly surprised.

That's pretty much the statement I was looking for. We're pretty much diving into this like the Oz rumor. We should hold judgement until we get final results.

My suggestions? Make Cookie's eyes a bit smaller... that's all I have to say...

pdiresta

10-28-2003, 03:36 PM

we actually just did a line of Muppet "3D-Animators" or push-puppets, that came out pretty cool (for mini-figures). Also we did some cold cast statues of iron maiden (eddie), the large scale KISS action figures they were like 36" I think....too huge for normal people! "Men Of Honor" (large scale military collectible figures with a ton of die-cast accessories)... before that Fun-4-All was a keychain company, and did mostly plush (All the SOUTH PARK talking Plush), we're also doing "Happy Tree Friends" plush now (which is a crazy toon)

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 03:39 PM

we're also doing "Happy Tree Friends" plush now (which is a crazy toon)

Happy Tree friends... you know, as an indepented animator in school, I've always wanted to see that stuff...

I'm just asking the question, does Sesame Workshop actually enforce, or suggest doing cartoon likenesses?

pdiresta

10-28-2003, 03:49 PM

Happy Tree friends... you know, as an indepented animator in school, I've always wanted to see that stuff...

I'm just asking the question, does Sesame Workshop actually enforce, or suggest doing cartoon likenesses?

They wanted us to use the 35th anniversary "retro" style guide art as a basis...if you guys saw this art, you'd know where these figures are coming from. Bert is way "uglier" in the style guide...trust me. I really believe that these figures will be very cool once they are completed.

Fozzie Bear

10-28-2003, 03:55 PM

Hey, PD!

They might as well gave you this art for a basis:
http://www.toughpigs.com/anth03sept01.htm

You'd think they would think about their mass audience and fans than just what 'they' want.

How far along are you in the deal, and if we offered suggestions, could you take them to the SW folks?

FOZ

frogboy4

10-28-2003, 03:56 PM

I'd still try to sway them into making these more like the puppets. You bought the license for a heck-of-a-lot-a money. You deserve to make what you want as long as they resemble the source material and are in the spirit of the characters. Just not digging the style. If the Muppet line came out of the style guide, I'd be equally as disappointed. We know that they went through several struggles to get what the fans really want and worked out a compromise that would suit everyone. :)

frogboy4

10-28-2003, 03:59 PM

By the way, if I type this in big bold font, maybe it will be answered.

Will Oscar be sculpted in his can?

Thanks. LOL! :confused: :grouchy:

Gordon Universe

10-28-2003, 04:00 PM

I have to say that I think the style of the toys is really cool, and I will definitely be picking up the first two series based on what characters are planned to come out (and because I think the pics are sweet). GOD! I can't believe I'm going to own a figure of Two-Headed Monster!!

I was very surprised at how many big-time characters are coming out in the first two series; I hope the line will have longevity. That's one thing I think Palisades is good at - spacing characters out to make sure the line as a whole lasts longer and we get to see more obscure characters. (actually, saying "that's one thing..." is quite insulting to Palisades, so, I should say that I love their Muppet line and I have all of them).

I know that the scale is tentatively going to be close to what Palisades is doing, but what of large characters like Big Bird and Snuffy? are they going to be twice as big as the other figures in the line? how will you package them? Palisades has said before that their Sweetums figure will be 10", though that's something they said before they actually went into production on him, so I'm not sure of his current size - will Big Bird be this large? I sure hope so.

Oh, also, are you planning on doing a regular Grover, too? Or are the cape and helmet removable? Planning on doing variants? I would love to see Cookie Monster as Alistair Cookie from Monsterpiece Theater.

radionate

10-28-2003, 04:01 PM

we actually just did a line of Muppet "3D-Animators" or push-puppets, that came out pretty cool
yeah but they look surprisingly like another line of products released from a company that everyone on this board is familar with.

Perhapes if you guys had a finished product to style these figures after, everyone hear might not be having the same comments about lack of detail, paint schemes, etc.

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 04:08 PM

They wanted us to use the 35th anniversary "retro" style guide art as a basis...if you guys saw this art, you'd know where these figures are coming from. Bert is way "uglier" in the style guide...trust me. I really believe that these figures will be very cool once they are completed.

I knew it! I can't believe everyone was more comfortable with the Simpsons line than this. The paint jobs are horrible start to finish, and the scale is thrown around. The only complaint they got was about Database!

I'm pretty much the ONLY person who actially wants this line (the Stuff on Palisades is really disparaging...:cry: ingrates) so I like what you're doing, and if no one else wants these, I'll buy up their share.

Gordon Universe

10-28-2003, 04:21 PM

I agree, Drtooth - except that you are the only who wants them - becuase I do, too!!

I think these Sesame Toys look awesome. I wish everybody wasn't complaining so much.

pxlforge

10-28-2003, 04:23 PM

I'll probably pick up a Bert and Ernie as a test to see how they look with the Muppets (scalewise and blending). Since these are still in the prototype stage, I'm hoping they can hook up with a few obsessed fans to tell them where they went wrong. (Which was underestimating the nitpickyness of the Sesame/Muppet experts - ANYTHING less than 100% show accuracy WILL draw fire.

That being said, I still agree with them... the figures SHOULD look more like the puppets. It won't make the line any less child friendly, but would make the nostalgic hardcore fans very happy.

Is there any way to create a happy medium (kind of in the same way that Palisades combined versions of Muppets from different eras into the quintessential sculpt)?

Maybe some puppety details could be added to the artwork based sculpts?

frogboy4

10-28-2003, 04:31 PM

I agree. I know these should be child friendly and I'm willing to see some rigid articulation, but the likeness has nothing to do with being kid-friendly. I'd try negotiating with SW.

Still no reply about Oscar's trash can. :grouchy: :zany:

radionate

10-28-2003, 04:36 PM

I knew it! I can't believe everyone was more comfortable with the Simpsons line than this. The paint jobs are horrible start to finish, and the scale is thrown around. The only complaint they got was about Database!

I'm pretty much the ONLY person who actially wants this line (the Stuff on Palisades is really disparaging...:cry: ingrates) so I like what you're doing, and if no one else wants these, I'll buy up their share.
But the Simpsons line is totally different. That showed is highly stylized, and there isn't any detail to the characters at all. Therefore you can create a simple sculpt and it still looks good.

I think what people are having a problem with is the way these have been presented to us. They were presented to us as a counterpart to the Palisades line. They aren't. They are their own creation.

These are stylized "cartoonish" versions of the characters, while Palisades are more faithful to the original material.

Does this mean I won't pick them up? No. I will be getting the figures I like, especially older odder characters like Guy Smiley or Harry Monster.

I just think they was these were presented, along with the skirting of any issues we the forum members have brought up is rather shady.

If you are going to come onto a forum to promote your product, you best be ready to handle everything from nickpicking to general praise. And it isn't wise to overlook the questions posed, even if you answer with a "I can't answer your question at this time".

WiGgY

10-28-2003, 05:16 PM

Question for the designer of the line. Dr. Tooth, please do not answer this with an assumption.

At this point in the production stage, would it be possible to stear the Sesame Street figure line in a more detailed direction? By this I mean is it possible to dump the stylized look (which most of us, your real consumers, don't like) and go for a puppet likeness style? If you wanted to make more realistic figures, could you make a case to Sesame Workshop and base figures on the puppets and not the cartoons?

Oh, and is Oscar sculpted in his can and if so what is the play fator going to be like?

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 05:18 PM

Firstly, there's a difference between nitpicking and full bore attacking (see the Palisades forum)

But with the Simpsnons line and Charlie Brown... I don't care how stylized they are, THOISE are the glorified Happy Meal toys, not these.

Look at the Futurama Mechandise, the character designs are similarly simplistic, but the toy line had more articulation, better sculpts, and it was just a heck of a lot better.

There is always less than 4 points of articulation on each Simpsons figure, as with Charlie Brown. I liked them, but they seemed over priced to me (Charlie Brown, that is. i waited for it to go on sale).

I agree with Jamie, there really should be a little more negotiation to try to make a marrage of Puppetry and Cartoon stylization, but I'd rather see cartoon stylized Sesame Characters than none at all.

There can only be one Palisades, other than that there are imitators, they've raised the bars for excellence, but we shouldn't attack the line for just the protos.

The reason why I'm angry is people attack this line and say they won't collect it, and then they turn arround and buy things like Muppet lolipops that only have stock photos of them on the bag...

Sheesh!

:smirk:

But you are forgetting the fact that for every figure you buy, SW will donate it back to their projects... meaning we'll see less and less of Elmo and Zoe as Circus detectives... eek! :eek:

turlem

10-28-2003, 05:24 PM

how does this work?

my top ten are

Cookie monster
Grover
Oscar
Ernie
Bert
Big Bird
Snufalupaogus
count
harry
two-headed monster

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 05:34 PM

I've E-mailed the dude asking for a sample of the style guide, to see how things are going down!

Drtooth

10-28-2003, 05:39 PM

pxlforge

10-28-2003, 06:01 PM

I think F4A was hoping for a more enthusiastic initial response (wow, cool, etc). Lack of comment from them may be because they simply weren't prepared for this negative of a reaction.

I hope the take the advice to find a way to puppetize the likenesses a bit seriously.

We all want these to be the best possible versions of beloved icons, so instead of attacking, I hope we can offer suggestions as to what it is about the protos that should be more puppet-accurate. Links to sesame source images? I'd like to see their styleguide too.

WiGgY

10-28-2003, 06:18 PM

But before I denounce the entire subject and this thread, let me say this...

At least they made it. We're going to have them, and that's that! I'd rather have a pretty good sculpt than none at all! To me collecting is not about how a figure looks, but what the figure is, who the character is, and why I like them.

The finished project may wow us, and we could all be wrong. Who cares? I'm going to get these, and leave the flat foam Muppet head recycled art antenna toppers and clip art Tissue boxes to you...

You are way to angry and way to passive at the same time.

Just because these are being made doesn't mean we should all be thankful and praise sculpts that many feel aren't the best they can be, or even close to it. If these are going to be the same price as the Palisades figures, as has been said, that means they will be about 8-9 dollars. For 9 bucks I want a realistic figure.

We didn't make the comparison to Palisades, they did. Because of that people expected the same attention to detail. But we didn't get that.

frogboy4

10-28-2003, 06:40 PM

I hope this criticism is being taken being honest and open. Some tempers are getting hot and it's important to remember we all have our opinions. Debates are perfectly fine, but nobody needs to change anyone else’s mind. If you want these figures - go buy them. If you think they can do better - mention it. I don't see why these guys are entitled to special treatment and I don't see where things have crossed the line so far in the criticism.

I'm not saying that this thread is shady, but. I'm have to admit to feel that way. I don't think the questions are being directly addressed or answered and in that, I feel sort of taken advantage of. The Oscar question has been asked in many posts and so far and has yet to be mentioned by pdiresta. Furthermore, the company’s history of using Palisades' designs for their animators and candles gives me a queasy feeling about their standards and practices.

I enjoy licensors stopping by, but so far I feel this is a one-way street rather than a shared experience. I hope to see the thread progress and be on the level as Ken has always done. If someone asks a question it would be polite to at least acknowledge it. This thread is leaving me cold. :(

Luke

10-28-2003, 07:16 PM

I don't think the questions are being directly addressed or answered and in that, I feel sort of taken advantage of.

I agree, we are being advertised to more than interacted with. That has always been my biggest fear of licensee's and retailers using the forum for input and exposure. That said, i appreciate Fun-4-All giving us the scoop here and letting us see the pictures. Hopefully some better system of interacting can be worked out - i know some of their ALF product was quite good.

grail

10-28-2003, 08:27 PM

I really should hang around here more...but for now, I just have a couple things to interject:

1) Dr. Tooth - Knock it off. Nobody's "attacking" them...they are simply stating concerns with the product and how it is being produced. You're the one doing all the attacking. With any luck, this is an opportunity for us as a group to help someone make figures that MANY of us have wanted for quite some time in the best way possible. To not fully speak your mind on the topic is ridiculous. If there is anything that most people around here have learned over the past couple years, it's HOW to give feedback. So far, yours is the feedback that's been the least "helpful"

2) Something that concerns me is that I just did the math. For them to be on store shelves even by the END of March, they're going to need to be on a boat by the very beginning of Febuary. To fill orders for retailers like Wal-Mart, which is my understanding that they will be available through (someone correct me if I'm wrong), they're going to need AT LEAST a month at the factory in China. That puts it at the Beginning of January to start production. Which means that they have from now until mid-december or so to get the sculpts finished and approved, have a paint master done and approved, get the tooling done, get a test shot done debugged and approved...and then a week or so to get the production bible done and sent. That's a tight schedule...tight enough that I don't see how they're going to have much of an opportunity to tweak the likenesses, etc. Especially since it looks like they may have all been sculpted by the same person.

I do find it interesting that he said they cast the prototypes and painted them for pre-Toy Fair. I find it more interesting that they're using regular clay instead of casteline or wax. I dunno...something just sounds "off" to me.

Treelo

10-28-2003, 09:16 PM

They wanted us to use the 35th anniversary "retro" style guide art as a basis...if you guys saw this art, you'd know where these figures are coming from. Bert is way "uglier" in the style guide...trust me. I really believe that these figures will be very cool once they are completed.

I've seen the style guide, and I'm a bit confused by your comment. There are plenty of cartoon Muppet illustrations, but there are also photographs of the actual puppets complete with multiple views and size comparisons. I'd like to know why you'd use the drawings as a base for the product design when the actual puppets are also there for a reference?

And you mentioned that Bert in the guide is "uglier" than the figure. Do you then agree that the figure isn't as attractive as it should be? Will there be vast changes made to improve him?

AndyWan Kenobi

10-28-2003, 10:05 PM

At least they made it. We're going to have them, and that's that! I'd rather have a pretty good sculpt than none at all! To me collecting is not about how a figure looks, but what the figure is, who the character is, and why I like them.

This seems pretty reasonable to me, and I have to agree with you on it. I'm excited about this line, and I especially can't wait to see the Two-Headed Monster. It's okay to be concerned about the sculpts, I think, particularly if they're supposedly not in final form and people have suggestions or critiques, but overall it's just great to have a company producing a full line of Sesame Street action figures! I'm really looking forward to them, no matter what!

:p :( :grouchy:

floydnjanicefan

10-28-2003, 10:05 PM

Can somebody please post a picture of the Style Guide that is being used? I am curious to see what they look like.

jediX

10-28-2003, 10:08 PM

I hope they're on the same scale as Palisades line.

grail

10-28-2003, 10:28 PM

Can somebody please post a picture of the Style Guide that is being used? I am curious to see what they look like.

A style guide isn't just one picture. Basically, what happens is that a company like Sesame Workshop, who has had MANY different versions of many of their characters over the years, takes images of all those different versions, and uses them to decide how THEY want their characters to look in their any and all merchandise that is done with them. They put it all in a book, and give it to the licensee, and that's what they have to go by.

It's kinda like series 1 Piggy and the yellow hair. That was a Henson thing, which is why Palisades did it. Of course, after Derrick did his custom on the hair, Palisades was able to show it to Henson and get it changed for future releases...but that's another story.

floydnjanicefan

10-28-2003, 10:50 PM

A style guide isn't just one picture. Basically, what happens is that a company like Sesame Workshop, who has had MANY different versions of many of their characters over the years, takes images of all those different versions, and uses them to decide how THEY want their characters to look in their any and all merchandise that is done with them. They put it all in a book, and give it to the licensee, and that's what they have to go by.

It's kinda like series 1 Piggy and the yellow hair. That was a Henson thing, which is why Palisades did it. Of course, after Derrick did his custom on the hair, Palisades was able to show it to Henson and get it changed for future releases...but that's another story.

Ooohhh.... I get it. Thanks!

frogboy4

10-29-2003, 12:44 AM

Gonzo

10-29-2003, 02:03 AM

I'm pretty much the ONLY person who actially wants this line (the Stuff on Palisades is really disparaging...:cry: ingrates)

That's wrong and you know it.

We would ALL love to see Sesame Street action figures done right. If they really are adding more texture, articulation, and detail to these figures, I'll be buying them. If the prototype = what we'll be seeing on shelves in March, I'll have a hard time getting them.

This has the potential of being the best Sesame Street toy line in years (ever, if done right) and the character lineup (including Guy Smiley and the Count in the second series) is wonderful (no Elmo in the first two series? :D ) ...I'd love to see this line go through ten series.

IF they're done right. I'm not asking for Palisades quality or style, but make the most of what they can do within their restrictions for safety and price point.

:p :(

Treelo

10-29-2003, 02:25 AM

These guides have been known to be notoriously bad. Sometimes they are cool though. When you see keychain images and the drawings that appear on mugs etc, these are usually style guide images. Sometimes they are quite cute, but should never replace a puppet likeness when presented with a choice.

The current Sesame guide is well put together, but isn't as large as someone would probably expect. It contains quite a few interesting details, and even has examples of well designed Sesame merchandise.

I also had a chance to look at the style guide for The Hoobs a while back. It had very specific instructions on fonts and colors for packaging, and came with a CD loaded with character images.

frogboy4

10-29-2003, 02:32 AM

No matter how good or bad that stuff ever is, it's always interesting.

Drtooth

10-29-2003, 07:21 AM

I know I'm overly defensive, but I felt the same way about Star Wars 1. A lot of people were expecting Chewy and Luke, dispite the fact it was a prequal (I've talked to some casual fans, I wish I could get them to verify). But by the attacks I mean all those people that say these are nothing more than glorified Happy Meal premiums. I mean, look at the JLA cartoon line. They are glorified cereal box premiums. I mean, Hasbro, Mattel, they could do a lot worse if you think about it.

But that's not why I'm, here... I actually know of a Sesame Street action figure line back a few years ago. They were made specifically for younger kids, as you could tell. They had okay accessories, but the line was just awful. Firstly there were only 3 characters, ELmo, Big Bird, and Ernie. There was absolutely no scale, since the figures were all the same size, the sculpts were much worse than these, and they talked. I think the talking feature was it's saving grace. They cost like 10 bucks or more. I have seen a few Ernies at a Way out of the way KB Toys, and they batteries wore out (and they were the watch sized ones)

Just giving you another scenario...

Drtooth

10-29-2003, 08:29 AM

But going towards suggestions, have you tried giving Cookie Monster more than one cookie, perhaps in various stages of being eaten? Like a bite out of one. And how about a sheet of removable letter stickers to put on the Cookies to reinact the "letter of the Day" segments.

And how about giving Grover a box of junk (String, tape, etc) with the stuff molded into the box?

grail

10-29-2003, 08:32 AM

Just giving you another scenario...

All the more reason for us to give our feedback NOW while there's still time. I'm one of the biggest bat-fans around, don't you think I wanna smack the crap out of some of those people at Mattel for some of their "style choices"? I mean, come on...have you SEEN the Superman that comes in that Bats 2-pack? If THEY had gotten some feedback first, maybe we wouldn't have some crappy figures in what should be the greatest toy line this side of Muppets.

Just giving another scenario...

Fozzie Bear

10-29-2003, 08:32 AM

I figure if we don't mention what we want now, we'll likely never get it.

If they're going to base something off of 'art,' I wish they'd use these characterizations:

http://www.toughpigs.com/bookclubc800.htm

I'm not pleased with the decision on the sculpts so far. Bad thing is, I'll likely get them anyways--but, for $9 a pop I want some say in what they're producing, especially since it's for folks in my community of fandom. I want to see something more like the original puppets for a change. We've always only got something from SW like this. We as fans deserve better. I believe F4A could do better, and that's why I'm saying what I say. I'm glad they got the license and decided to do this--but they can do it better than what they're settling on.

Look at the link above and you'll see what it SHOULD look like.

FOZ

Drtooth

10-29-2003, 08:40 AM

I have to agree that of all things, my only complaint is that the price is a bit off. I mean, the 8-10 dollar range is a bit much, and they should try for something in th 7 dollar range. But after seeing the dissappointing Looney Tunes Back in action figures for 12 bucks a pop, 9 bucks for these doesn't seem so bad.

Oh well... at least Daffy comes with an anvil...

Fozzie Bear

10-29-2003, 08:44 AM

Is there a link to see the Looney Tunes figures?

Drtooth

10-29-2003, 08:56 AM

Daffy (http://www.toyfever.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=W&Product_Code=daffyduckbackinaction&Category_Code=looneytunestoys)

Tazmanian Devil (http://www.toyfever.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=W&Product_Code=tazbackinaction&Category_Code=looneytunestoys)

Bugs Bunny (http://www.toyfever.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=W&Product_Code=bugsbackinaction&Category_Code=looneytunestoys)

They suck even more in real life. There is also a Monster Tweety, whose sole accessory was a small regular Tweety.

They stand about 5 inches, and they only have four. The main dissappointment is the fact that they didn't even bother to make Yosimite Sam, Elmer Fudd, Foghorn Leghorn (I'd kill for an action figure of him), Wiley Coyote, Road Runner, and Nasty Connasta (from the previews, I can't tell if anyone else is in the movie)

I'm surprised people aren't more dissappointed by these!

jtatooine

10-29-2003, 10:02 AM

To me collecting is not about how a figure looks, but what the figure is, who the character is, and why I like them.

To me, an action figure must be made well or I won't buy it. There is a lot of junk out there and I won't buy it just because it involves a character I like... especially at like $8.

Fozzie Bear

10-29-2003, 11:26 AM

To me, an action figure must be made well or I won't buy it. There is a lot of junk out there and I won't buy it just because it involves a character I like... especially at like $8.

I didn't think they looked so bad, however I absolutely will NOT buy anything anymore if the true integrity of the character is not captured in the piece. I've passed up many Blues Brothers, Ghostbusters, Peanuts, and Muppets items because I didn't feel the items captured the true essence of what those characters are.

The Count

10-29-2003, 11:48 AM

OK, here's the wishlist of figures I sent the guy and the questions I asked him. No reply as of yet, so I'm asking it right here. Whosoever can help me out, please drop me a message. Thanks for the help and have a haunted day.

Wishlist
1 The Count von Count.
2 Sherlock Hemlock.
3 Little Bird.
4 Placido Flamingo.
5 Grungetta.
6 Prairie Dawn.
7 The Honkers.
8 Lefty the Salesman.
9 Guy Smiley.
10 Countess Dahling von Dahling.

As I understand it, you'll be sending pictures of the
five figures already in prototype form planned for S1
to those forum members from Muppet Central or
Palisades Toys who send you their wishlists. However,
I'd appreciate it if you could send me text
descriptions of what the figures look like and answer
the following questions to the best of your knowledge
instead. The reason I'm making this request is cause
I'm partially blind and can't see pictures on a
computer screen.

Here are the questions I have, feel free to use
examples/references to the Palisades Toys' Muppets
figure line whenever possible.
1 What texturing will the figures have?
2 What details have been included for each character's
figure?
3 What does the figure, specifically, look like?
Please include skin color, nose color and/or shape,
head shape, distinguishing features, clothing and its
coloring, and any other pertinent details for a
complete description.
4 What articulation points will each figure have?
5 What accessories will each figure have?
6 Will they come with figure bases/stands?
7 Will their packaging resemble that of Palisades
Toys' Muppets figures from Series 1-3 or from S4
onwards?
8 Will their packaging have bio-filecards on the back
similar to the ones for Palisades Toys' Muppets
figures?

AndyWan Kenobi

10-29-2003, 11:55 AM

I didn't think they looked so bad, however I absolutely will NOT buy anything anymore if the true integrity of the character is not captured in the piece. I've passed up many Blues Brothers, Ghostbusters, Peanuts, and Muppets items because I didn't feel the items captured the true essence of what those characters are.

I've done the same, and probably many of us here have--most of us probably aren't made of money. Still, I'm really excited to have 3-D likenesses of less traditionally-marketable characters like Guy Smiley and the Two Headed Monster. I hope I like the final product, but mostly I'm just happy to see the Sesame Street characters treated as a property that has a broader appeal than pre-schoolers. Of course they need to be suitable for a younger age as well, and there would be something wrong with an Ernie toy that a three-year old couldn't have safe fun with, but I'm glad to see this company reaching out to the older fans as well.

:)

jtatooine

10-29-2003, 01:56 PM

Of course they need to be suitable for a younger age as well, and there would be something wrong with an Ernie toy that a three-year old couldn't have safe fun with, but I'm glad to see this company reaching out to the older fans as well.

:)

I don't think they need to worry as much as they do about really young kids. I don't think really young kids(under 3) even play with action figures. Aren't they already past that stage and moved on to computer games? Kidding.

Whoever it is mentioned these were based on the "retro" artwork and that they would be sold in shops like Hot Topic and more and as far as I know, there aren't any 3 year olds buying their toys in there. The core market is going to be guys in their 20's so why not gear them more to that?

Drtooth

10-29-2003, 01:57 PM

AHMEN!! I mean, sure concerns like "Ernie's Feet are slightly bigger than they should be" that I think is valid and is a suggestion. Saying these are out and out "Junk" is just... I don't know, and I don't want to go into it.

We don't have any pictures of the final final with texture, details, finalized articulation, and the rest. I think we should keep it to suggestions and concerns like changing the sculpts and waiting for the "These are junk" comments till the end. That is what has got me up and mad. I bring to mind other lines from other companies that are far worse, and people just want to spit all over it...

I hope this guy is still with us. Here are the comments I have worked on in compromising what you guys want.

Firstly, is there some way to make a marage between stylization and Puppetry?

Bert) okay...I guess you could make the pointing finger work. Maybe it's his perch for Bernice. We can't tell yet. Is there any way to get a ball and socket joint for the arms without losing the preschool audience? And is these some way to tone down the Flirty expression he has, within the regions of the style guide?

Ernie) His feet need to be a little smaller, and so does his stomache. I see a lot of potential for him and Bert to have great fabric texture in the sweaters, especially the cuffs and collars.

Cookie) Firstly, his stomach needs to be a bit longer, and less buldgey. Secondly, his eyes need to be a bit smaller. His color needs to be darker, but that could be fixed with the layered painting. And once agian, how about more cookies and some letter of the day stickers to go with them? I think he should have a semi-satin like finish to make his fur seem to have a little sheen without making it too shiny.

Oscar) I bet a lot of us would like to see Oscar removable from his can. Is that possible at all. If not, could he be out more of the way so he can have articulated arms? Is it possible for him to ome with things like rotten shoes?

Grover) Is his super hat, super cape, and super embelum removable? A lot of fans would think this makes the character into 2 toys in one.

Upcoming figure questions:

Guy Smiley) WIll his hair be tossled or neatly parted. I've seen the Puppet have both. Is there any way he can come with the letter E, with a removable cloak and crown?

Biff) Will he come with the letter J, as one of his signature songs is "My J?" Will he have tools?

Sully) Again, tools?

Count vonCount) Making sure we don't follow in the footsteps of tyco's die cast cars, will he have a goatee and a monacle? Will the moical be painted on, or will it be attatched to the figure securely so it doesn't break off? And it would be great to see him come with a Number in Liu of a letter (or mayhaps both) and Sasha, Misha, and Grishia, his pet bats?

Big Bird) Amoung other things, will he have the white feathery puff just above the middle of his eyes, like the Puppet? This will make it stand out from all the Big Bird Sculpts over the years. And Please don't shorten his beak as the Pez company did.

frogboy4

10-29-2003, 02:33 PM

Lets face it, these aren't terrible. They are C-grade, run of the mill figures. I'm not that impressed, but I'm not shocked at the quality either. I am disappointed that the licensor came over for a dialogue and disappeared when members asked questions and made suggestions. I hope he returns to answer them.

jtatooine

10-29-2003, 03:08 PM

I still haven't decided that these are "junk". They're better than that. I am simply saying there is a lot of junk out there with characters that I like on them and I wont buy it.

For example:The Christmas Story figures. The mom looks more like my mom than the actress. I wont buy them. I may get them for christmas because it's one of my favorite movies and I've been waiting forever for stuff to come out. But I think we are already saturated with bad products from this movie... and the stuff just started coming out. Look at the 3 pack from Pre-Toy Fair, it comes with an "Exclusive" christmas tree. Now thats junk.

As for the SS figures. I really hope they turn out much better than the prototypes. I know sometimes things change. But right now they look like they'll be sitting next to those corny Jesus and Moses figures. Thats kind of what I've been picturing. Novelty items... not quality action figures. We'll see what happens...

Drtooth

10-29-2003, 03:16 PM

MuppetQuilter

10-29-2003, 03:45 PM

I think this line has a great deal of potential. We've seen fairly small pictures of some very early prototypes, so it's too early for me to judge the likenesses or where they are going with the sort of retro look. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see where they go with the figures. But I've wanted Sesame figures for a long time. :)

I don't feel used. Again, they're just starting out with this line. They may take a lot of our ideas into account when doing revisions and planning future lines. I do think there is a danger with manufacturers and retailers using the forum-- they could dangle the idea of having a voice in Muppet product in front of us when all they intend to do is use the forum for free advertising, but I don't see evidence of that in this case at this point. I don't think it is reasonable to expect personal responses to every question or idea-- Ken and the good folks at Palisades aren't able to do that either.

Now, about the figures, I want to see:

Fat Blue
Regular Grover
Snuffy
Zoe
Prarie Dawn
Roosevelt Franklin (if Sesame Workshop will allow him)
Gladys the Cow
Sherlock Hemlock

If any of the humans make it into the line I'd start with Mr. Hooper and if playsets come along I'd want Mr. Hooper's store first (followed by Big Bird's nest, Ernie and Berts' apartment, and the steps of 123).

I love the idea of the including letter figures with eyes! When they run out of letters they can start in on numbers (0-10 gives us 11 more figures)....

Drtooth

10-29-2003, 03:54 PM

I think this line has a great deal of potential. We've seen fairly small pictures of some very early prototypes, so it's too early for me to judge the likenesses or where they are going with the sort of retro look. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see where they go with the figures. But I've wanted Sesame figures for a long time.

That's all I'm asking. Give them the beinfit of the Doubt. We've only seen beginning prototypes of like 5 characters. We cannot judge what the entire line will look like based on the begining.

But the Palisades comments are harsh and one sided. They all want the exact same stuff Palisades makes from a different company. Hey. While they are at it let's do something that really needs to be fixed. Like the Looney Tunes BIA line. Let's boy cot them and use them for chew toys, not this line.

I mean, really. It's Sesame Street, not torchered souls. Of course the Sulpts are going to be child oriented. No one takes this into account. They just crap all over it without seeing a more realistic side.

Yes Palisades shopuld have got the line, but they didn't We have to suck it up and wait for these to be finished before we make a final judgement. That's all I ask.

frogboy4

10-29-2003, 04:06 PM

If everyone's gonna call them C grade figures, no wonder the guy left.

All we have to go on are first test shots on the internet of these figures. They may be lame, they may rock, who cares. They're making a line that isn't 3 standard characters (Big Bird, Elmo, and Ernie) and we have great characters like Guy and 2head on the way. I mean, even if they are PVC's with articulation, they are still better than the summer blockbuster garbage that gluts up most of Target and TRU. Even if they were 20 bucks a pop, I'd rather buy one than a Hulk for 99 cents. I mean, it is a far cry from Palisades quality so far of course, I'll compromise on that, but it's still way better than the real glorified Happy Meal toys like the Simpsons line, the Peanuts line, and especially the Incredable Hulk garbage.

I mean, sure if Applause still made PVC's I'd rather get those. But they haven't made them since the early 90's and even then, we had no obscure characters like Guy and 2Head (to my knowledge. They are probably obscure.)

I mean, if you want only ultra high Quality stuff like Palisades figures, go right ahead. But if you turn around and buy Muppet Lolipops and tissue boxes... you really need to rethink stuff...

We’re not supposed to he honest? Ken was grilled a lot more when he first entered MC. Lets face it; these are middle of the road representations. They are not remarkable in any way. Cute, but nothing new. They began the Palisades comparison - trying to get mileage out of the accomplishments of someone else. Their ethics and business practices are questionable to say the least.

I want to like these, but the truth is I don't. I'm not going to pander to a guy just because he's a licensor. There's nothing wrong with honesty. I've given low scores to Muppet films before, why not SS figures? Opinions are fine around here, but attacks on opinions are not. Neither is it okay for a member to dictate what we can post as long as we are following the guidelines written my the Muppet Central moderators. If you want to praise the guy simply because he's making these, that's your prerogative. I've learned that many Muppet/SS fans have high standards. There's nothing wrong with calling it as you see it.

It would be nice for licensors to respect the forum enough to answer questions and comments, good or bad, rather than just plugging their product and leaving. You can't just be approachable when people are giving you praise. We were asked for our thoughts. Let's hear some feedback on them.

You can't really compare tissue boxes to action figures. It makes no sense. I have yet to see tissue boxes with stellar art - Muppets or otherwise. Those were the coolest tissue boxes I've ever seen and I passed on them. They are what they are. Nothing more, nothing less. The lollipops and tins were an interesting idea that I agree - didn't work. I passed on those too. I'm not thrilled by the Vet’s Hospital beans. I will get them for Camilla, but will mark my comments as them being C-grade beans. I'm happy they're out, but wish they were better.

There's nothing wrong with honesty. Forums are about mutual communication. It's a shame that criticism could have run off this guy, but we shouldn't feel the need to pander to anyone. *Opinions are welcome here.* I hope he comes back and addresses our issues. I also hope they rethink their stragegy for these. Early protos or not, I don't like the direction they are going. It appears to me that many people want to see these skew toward puppet accuracy rather than kid-toon style.

MuppetQuilter

10-29-2003, 04:35 PM

There's nothing wrong with honesty. Forums are about mutual communication. ... *Opinions are welcome here.* I hope he comes back and addresses our issues. I also hope they rethink their stragegy for these. Early protos or not, I don't like the direction they are going. It appears to me that many people want to see these skew toward puppet accuracy rather than kid-toon style.

Yep-- opinions are welcome here. If we all agreed on everything it would be a pretty pointless forum.

The guy asked for our feedback. Some people are excited by the figures and some aren't-- that's cool and that's feedback.

Personally, I think they're right to try and find an approach to the SST figures that differs from the Palisades Muppet figures. (If they copied Palisades' approach we'd be accusing them of copying Palisades.) I think the prototypes we've seen need some work, but there's potential there. As an adult collector I prefer the Palisades approach, but as the parent of a preschooler I appreciate the direction Fun-4-All is going with these. Most of the SST merchandise out there is too babyish for my three year old (why are most SST toys aimed at 6-12 month olds???) I'm excited about being able to get her SST figures that will be a bit sturdier than the Palisades figures.

I'm wondering if Palisades didn't go after the SST license because they didn't want to have to compromise their style to fit the safety requirements for a toy for preschoolers.....

jtatooine

10-29-2003, 04:39 PM

While they are at it let's do something that really needs to be fixed. Like the Looney Tunes BIA line. Let's boy cot them and use them for chew toys, not this line.

I think we've all heard and understand that you dislike the Looney Tunes line. The reason we aren't boycotting them is because they have nothing to do with this forum or palisades forum. They aren't a part of the discussion, but you keep comparing them.

If you want to bring them into the discussion so bad I think that they look fine. I think the accessories are neat. The quality is decent. The articulation looks alright and the sculpt is pretty good for a normally 2D character. And they have the right idea when they wrote "5+" on the packaging. Forget about everybody younger than that.

frogboy4

10-29-2003, 05:23 PM

I will be getting Oscar no matter what. Unfortunately I will likely pass on Bert and Ernie (my other FAVORITES) unless they give them more realistic proportions. I'll probably pass on the others in wave one too. I do hope that series 2 shapes up better. If they play their cards right I just might get Big Bird. His realistic look is very important to me. I might get others depending on quality. Just have to see them. I aint holding my breath, but I'm not counting them out either.

I might just collect Oscar, or I could collect the few better pieces. Based on the prototypes so far, who are you guys getting?

Drtooth

10-29-2003, 05:40 PM

I'm getting all I can afford affter collecting Muppets. But I am looking foward to Guy Smiely, etc. stuff you can't find anywhere else. That's pretty much all the Palisades quality I want. Obscure characters are quality enough for me, but the whole set would be great. Might pass on Zoe if she's made... might not..

>>If you want to bring them into the discussion so bad I think that they look fine. I think the accessories are neat. The quality is decent. The articulation looks alright and the sculpt is pretty good for a normally 2D character.<<

I'm basing this on the fact that they are inferior to the Sesame line and far far far inferior to the Muppet line. I mention them because Ken Lilly wanted to do both lines at one point, but couldn't because of licensing nightmares, and turndowns (as I can recall). I think they are alright, but hardly worth 12 bucks. more like 5 or 6. I think the company that made them before (name escapes me) did a much better job, especially making them based on specific shorts.

The thing I hate the most about the BIA line is the complete lack of characters. If there is one thing you can credit this line on, it's the fact that we have a wide range of characters to collect. If I can get these LT things on sale after I collect series 5, I may just get Daffy. I once again like the Bob Clampett stylizations on Bugs and Daffy, but I think the line could have been better, the figures could have been bigger, and they could have at least made Yosemitie Sam, Elmer Fudd, Nasty Conasta, And the Road runner and Coyote. they didn't. As bad as everyone thinks the sculpts are they took more care with this than Mattel did with LT BIA. I mean, even the Space Jam figures had a wider range of characters. I always wanted a dream pak of Wayne Knight and Foghorn Leghorn... It sucks the WB store wran out of business...

jtatooine

10-29-2003, 06:10 PM

The thing I hate the most about the BIA line is the complete lack of characters. ...the figures could have been bigger, and they could have at least made Yosemitie Sam, Elmer Fudd, Nasty Conasta, And the Road runner and Coyote. they didn't.

Do you know if this is it? Just one series? I would want a Foghorn Leghorn if they're going all the way.

I think the size is just right. Maybe a hair larger, but figures are getting too big. Have you seen the South Park figures? I don't want anything to do with them. If they were 1/3 the size they'd still be too big.

beaker

10-30-2003, 03:00 AM

Fozzie Bear

10-30-2003, 08:57 AM

I'm still down on the likeness issues. I do like Super Grover, though! Who knows, I may only get the few ones I find keep the integrity of the original characters.

So, seeing that these are based on cartoons of the characters, what do you all think about the link I posted 2 or 3 pages back that showed some GOOD cartoon representations of the characters??

Bert's head on the protos is just too pointy!!

Besides that, by us debating what we like and don't like might get us the figures we really DO want. Maybe he isn't replying just yet, letting us do some posting a bit then will come back?? At any rate, I think that the harder we are on them the better the figures may turn out--especially if he/she takes this forum to SW and says, "Look, here's what your fans are saying and here's what they want! I would like to suggest we work in this direction." It worked for Palisades, and they have tons of positive feedback.

I was pee-in-my-pants excited about SS figures, I just wished they looked better! And, with time to spare and our discussion we have a chance to get more out of the work they produce.

I just don't see us settling for less if they can do better.

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 10:00 AM

Yo, whats this stylized argument crap? Obviously Fun$All cant be doing no microcosmic pin hole detail like Palisades can, I love the prototype pics...
its silly hearing these complaints, ya want bad Sesame likenesses? Go to the baby aisle of any toy store. FINALLY we will have non baby collector Sesame stuff, something Japanese fans have enjoyed for a few years now.

Agree 100%. I mean, a lot of people here (and especially on the palisdaes board) are like the guy in the desert (or is that dessert... I'm a bad speller) who's dying of thirst and complains his warters too warm...

I mean, the first thing that poped into my mind is they aren't Sesame Babies, and the line up doesn't include Elmo yet.

The cartoony stylization for Cookie, Bert, Grover and Ernie... it doesn't totally matter. I mean, Cookie monster's looks fluxuate throughout the season (they use 3 dissimilarly colored puppets), and Ernie and Bert look pretty lifeless now a days (they over perfected them. bert looks great, but Ernie looks too much like a doll now. They had to overperfect him. I want to find out who was responsible for that)

Oscar is the only one that would be affected in the lineup so far. His fur is really matted and jagged, and I'd love to see that happening. But I can't tell since his head is partially obscurred in the photo.

I mean, down the line with more complicated characters like Guy Smiley, Big Bird, and God willing Forgetful Jones and Big Bad wolf, I'd like more Puppety looking ones. But reguardless, I'd love them!

I mean, the only other toys like collectors Item on the market today are imported Japanese Kubricks. beaker gave me a Grover. I can't find them anywhere, and even still, at 10 bucks a piece in a randomly assorted pack, I'd go broke trying to get the characters I want the most.'

I mean, sure, we are jaded by the classic 1980's-early 90's Applause PVC's, but after seeing Baby Elmo (redundant) and cookie monsters whose heads look like Nerf balls, seeing something like these are a godsend.

I mean, they aren't syupposed to have the same details as Torchered Souls, they're based on a classic kid's show.

If anything, there should be some more articulation, that's it with me...

pdiresta

10-30-2003, 10:15 AM

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 10:25 AM

Glad to see you back. What do you think of my list of suggestions, especially the letter stickers with Cookie?

Fozzie Bear

10-30-2003, 10:56 AM

First of, the Kubricks thing stinks. I wouldn't buy them for $1.00 a piece.

The reason I decided to show you the earliest versions of the sculpts is because NOW is the time where we can make changes (they are still just clay).

Which is exactly why I said:

Besides that, by us debating what we like and don't like might get us the figures we really DO want. And, with time to spare and our discussion we have a chance to get more out of the work they produce. I just don't see us settling for less if they can do better.

So, I hope others will get on the band wagon and help out with suggestions--good or bad feedback--and help us get figures we can all be proud to display.
-------------------------
pdiresta, did you see the link a few pages back that showed some of the cartoon versions of the SS gang? What'd you think of that, and how close to anything else that Sesame Workshop shows you is that art?

Great cartoon design of the cast:
http://www.toughpigs.com/bookclubc800.htm

I just hope you realize that while we seem like a harsh bunch of folks and that we're seemingly coming down on F4A hard about the designs so far, we do love these characters with all our heart and there is a certain look and expectation we have in regards to the figures. You've read already that for too long we've had to deal with the likes of Sesame Babies and other badly produced merchandise, and we are ready for somthing beneficial to the fan community to be produced. It's not that we're disgusted that there is finally some SS figures coming out--we're proud of it. We just think ultimately they can--and will--look better than the current protos, and by offering the feedback to you we know we'll likely get something more along the lines of what we want and expect.

Otherwise, where there is some harsh talk in prior threads it was everyone trying to argue and reinforce their own ideas about what they like and didn't like with one another.
----------------------------
So, to my MC Family, I hope now that we all quit comparing different lines of figures with these, and start focusing on what can be done to make this line better. There's no more need to defend the production of the figures, and there is no need to reinforce your own suggestions that you are willing to accept them as they currently are--this is the time where we are able to work alongside a good company and get our Muppet friends produced with good integrity to match the characters we all know and love.

I expect that we can put the nagging at each other behind us here on out and start being productive and making suggestions.

******************
Just to keep things local while reading, here's the link to the MC article which shows the pictures of the current proto's:
http://www.muppetcentral.com/news/2003/102703.shtml

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 11:00 AM

Kubricks are a Japanese thing. It's like... well... okay... it's hard to compare to anything we've had here. It's became a phenominon over there, and so far they have hundreds of them. I only like the ones with sculpted heads, and I got like 3 of the Kelloggs ones for 2 bucks each...

Fozzie Bear

10-30-2003, 11:04 AM

phenominon ...

do doo do do doo

I've seen the Kurbicks and was unimpressed by them.

Stryder Wolfe

10-30-2003, 11:15 AM

very interesting....chalk me up as another who'd much prefer stronger puppet licenses. So far, out of those prototypes, if we see a lot of improvement, I might get oscar and cookie. This is if I can easily find them...I won't go to the trouble of hunting them down like I do some stuff.

Of course, I'm probably the pickiest person here...I have NEVER seen muppet/ss merchandise that was good enough for me to actually buy EXCEPT of course for the palisades figures. Other than those, I have a few sesame street things people boiught for me, knowing what a huge fan I am, but I've never shelled out for anything myself.

SO just getting me to admit to possibly thinking about buying the two mentioned above is a nice start.

hmmm..speaking of pleasing everyone all the time, ever consider doing two seperate SS lines? One stylized cartoony like your prototypes, and the other fully puppet based? Might work....

beaker

10-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Agree 100%. I mean, a lot of people here (and especially on the palisdaes board) are like the guy in the desert (or is that dessert... I'm a bad speller) who's dying of thirst and complains his warters too warm..

heh, and ya wonder why I and a lot more dont go on there;) Im more of a news guy, I am usually too sift through threads, so Im a MC/TP/daily bit index sifter.
I like the desert analogy.

I didnt catch the fun4all guy's name, but he's like our new Ken...the Sesame Ken! Someone should start a "Ask so in so at Fun4All".

There are now 3 major respected names in Muppet stuff:
Palisades
Sababa
and Fun4all

I believe Fun4all's first Muppet stuff was the Piggy/Kermit/Fozzie/Kermit/Gonzo/Animal mini plush keychains...so its neat to see em grab this licence.

For people who insist on some kind of seperation of felt and state when it comes to Muppet Show and Sesame Street, foooie! If Sababa can make Muppet Show and Fraggle Rock stuff, Nanco can make Muppet Show, Sesame, and BEar in the Big Blue house stuff, and Fun4All can make Muppet Show and Sesame Stuff...There IS NO seperation...they all is Muppets.

Anyways to the Fun4All guy, thanks for being so involved with these, as weve been waiting for Sesame figures(and heck, non baby Sesame products) for eons!

The Count

10-30-2003, 01:20 PM

OK, Im just gonna post as often as Mr. pdiresta does cause this thread's gotten far too convaluted for my tastes.
Improvements:
1 Sculpts.
Make them look more like the actual puppets than cartoon images, as most others have stated before. Can't comment on this for real cause my blindness has inhibited me from seeing the pics, but if you're gonna promise anything on at least a sub-level as Palisades it would do you good to strive for puppet likenesses for your figures rather than cartoon images.
2 Make Oscar a separate figure on his own, separate him from the trashcan and make that as a separate accessory. And I'd hope that Slimey the Worm would become a pack-in figure all to himself like the ones from Palisades, though not sure if that'll happen.
3 Super Grover, make his helmet magnetically removable. You'll save yourselves a lot of hassle this way, what with the removing of the helmet and cape.
4 Articulation.
Every figure in the series should at least have the same basic articulation points whatever they may be. Don't leave out any figure from articulation consideratin like some have stated regarding Oscar.
5 Accessories.
The Muppet letters will be a nice touch, but will you mix in numbers as well? Hoping that'll be the case should the figure of my namesake be released in a future series. Also, try to plan for a more overall scheme when planning the accessories. For example, I think that Super Grover could benefit from not only coming with a removable helmet and cape, but an old-fashioned safe as well. It would be a nice touch if the safe's door could open and close, but maybe that's too much to ask for fright now.
6 Paints.
Can't comment on this subject either, but I'd hope that the paints are applied more faithfully to the puppet likenesses than to the cartoon images. This comes to mind especially with Bert. Many of the PVC figurines in my collection never have his shirt completely correct, so make sure his shirt has vertical bands of green and blue and orange.
7 Packaging.
Still curious about this one point, and though I'd like to know what sort or style the packaging will be modeled after, my bigger concern is that the blisters have a sort of bio-info filecard on the back like the figures from Palisades.
That's all I've got for now, maybe more at a later date.
Hope this helps and have a haunted day.

matleo

10-30-2003, 01:29 PM

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I wasn't in the office yesterday.
I just want to let all you guys know: We definitely appreciate all your comments, negative and positive! The reason I decided to show you the earliest versions of the sculpts is because NOW is the time where we can make changes (they are still just clay). There have been no revision on these sculpts as of now. Nothing is perfect from the start...but we're working on it. I am personally very close to this line here at Fun-4-All, and believe me...I am way more critical on the line that you all could ever be. I have a list of revisions, and so does Sesame Work Shop a mile long. And now we have all your suggestions to take into account (that's why you guys are so important, and play a huge role in the evolution of the development of the toys). I promise you (the true collectors/fans-which I am a part of), I take your comments seriously. I really want the collector fans to be happy, yes you guys are a tough crowd to win over, but we're going to do our best to find a happy medium where we can please the collectors, parents, children, and the buyers (without them-the toys don't make it onto the shelves). Thanks for the comments!

Thank you for your post regarding this subject. your candor here is appreciated and it puts my mind at ease a little regarding these figures. Still, I do wish oyu had been a bit more upfrotn about how early these prototypes were but....water under the bridge. 20/20 hindsight, right? Anyway, I lok forward ot seeing the improvements and I look forward to seeing characters liek Count telly, and so forth. you knw between S1 and S2, you have a LOT of my favorite guys already. so that's good. I also have a friend who keeps askign me about if there will ever be a Guy Smiley figure. when I told her about you guys her face lit up!!

Don't know if you can answer this, but what are YOUR reactions to these figures? What kind of changes do YOU think need to be made? I think that answer would put a lot of people here at ease.

I hope the line is a success for you and I hope the revisions go well. I look forward to seeing the final product and I hope that in 6 months a lot of us are sitting here eatign our words and apologizing. no seriously, I mean that!! I mean that for me too!! there are a lot of time, I've told Palisades 'I don't think that will be cool' and I'm glad I've been wrong each time, because Palisades had one an amazing job. I really hope you guys can do the same. Cheers!

--Matt

matleo

10-30-2003, 01:35 PM

I didnt catch the fun4all guy's name, but he's like our new Ken...the Sesame Ken!

The FaA guy's name is Phil....which I think could get a little confusing if we call him that cause of Chapman. And I don't think Phil (F4A Phil) or Ken would appreciate us calling him Sesame Ken. hmmm..this is a quandry.

He, Mr. Diresta, is it all right if we just call you "F4A" or "Diresta" or "sesame guy". I think it would be a lot easier around here and cut down on confusion. See we already have a Phil. that's the guy with the pic of Kermit under his name where it says "Moderator". Anyway, we'd really appreciate it. thanks.

--matt

frogboy4

10-30-2003, 02:39 PM

Thanks for your comments, but could you answer some of our questions? It's been asked numorous times if Oscar will be sculpted inside his can, but there has been no reply. Is this because you don't know? A simple response even if you don't know would be greatly appreciated. I'm glad you appreciate the input. We'd like to hear some too. :)

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 02:45 PM

I didnt catch the fun4all guy's name, but he's like our new Ken...the Sesame Ken! Someone should start a "Ask so in so at Fun4All".

Don't call him Sesame Ken or Bizzarro Ken or anything like that. I can tell there is a F4A/ Palisades Rivalry between the two, since they have the SS licence Palisades wanted.

IMO, I do think these figures have potential. And not to step on any toes, but I have to admit, these have much better quality than the Palisades S1 Piggy... I skipped her until i saw her on sale. i kept her in the package until I found that PIS Piggy wAs delayed. So we can only tell that this line will not only improve after the protos, but in each and every series as well.

I mean, we need characters like Guy, 2 head, Forgetful Jones, etc. that haven't been made into many 3D representations yet... that I know of...

Not to mention Telly monster, who had a few things that were very hard to find (my fave piece so far in my SS collection would have to be my Telly Monster Die cast vehicle).

So as Beaker said, Palisades, Sabba, and now F4A are the "holy trinity" of Muppet Merch so far. and may there be many more. :zany: :crazy:

frogboy4

10-30-2003, 02:45 PM

There are now 3 major respected names in Muppet stuff:
Palisades
Sababa
and Fun4all

I would not put all three of those on the same footing. I enjoy and own some of the Sababa beans, but they are not anywhere near top quality and Fun$All is going to have to prove their quality in the line. I haven't been impressed. I don't get these starving analogies. I've never been wild about SS stuff unless it's really good so that doen't apply to my perspective. The only thing I'm hungry for is top-quality products. I've passed on a lot of Muppet items because they didn't look right to me. I've learned that most Muppet fans have high standards and there's nothing wrong with that.

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 02:47 PM

CherryPizza

10-30-2003, 03:18 PM

Here are my ideas for figures,playsets,varients and boxed sets based on various sketches from Sesame Street...Feel free to comment or add to it.

Figures with possible Accessories:

Guy Smiley with microphone,Large Nose,and a Letter

Don't stop there; I want the game show playset; the TV studio with Guy as an accessory... btw a "Here is Your Life" book would be a potential GS accessory too

Don Music with piano and beethoven bust

and don't forget the sheet music with lyrics scribbled out because I'LL NEVER GET IT RIGHT... NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!

Herry Monster with red & white striped pants as seen in various books,teddy bear and barbell

Yes, but not his teddy bear, but his DOLLY. sigh, if only the rest of us could be as comfortable with our feminine sides

Lefty the Salesman with jacket that opens to revel the Letter O

Hee hee... Did he ever ask Ernie "hey, wanna buy an E?" Lefty's never likely to be seen on SS again, but if such a sketch exists it'd be especially unlikely to see the light of day... thank you, clubbing generation

Characters I can't think of accessories for:

... Harvey Kneeslapper

A letter to slap on to somebody's chest

Box Set
Follow That Bird featuring Miss Finch & The Dodos

And how about a "Bluebird of Happiness" Big Bird painted blue with the faded shorts?

Come to think about it, why not a Big Bird box set, featuring the original Big Bird, the "standard" Big Bird and the blue one

Um, please, let me be the first to suggest it: BRING ON THE CAROLL SPINNEY ACTION FIGURE

Playsets:

Big Bird's nest... just make sure the pic of "Mr Looper" is there

"Inside Oscar's Can" playset... from the front it's just a trash can sitting on an old crate, but from the back you can see the world inside, where there's a bowling alley, swimming pool, chinese restaurant... and so on

And well, I suppose the Elmo's World playset would be inevitable

radionate

10-30-2003, 03:21 PM

Don't forget he is a busy guy, and sometimes he can forget all the questions, even the most important ones...
Um, but this one has been asked repeatedly, and is pretty hard to miss. I've yet to really see him answer a single question directly.

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 03:39 PM

Yer right... maybe he just doesn't know...

I mean, rarely do you see oscar outside the can, and even still, you never see below his waist. You see his feet only when they pop out of the can...

I have seen the Puppet in real life, (pretty close but not up close and personal) and from what I recall the puppet stops at the waist, like if you cut a Kermit doll just below his waist (sorry for the graphic image. It's the best possible example I have so far), just some fabric hanging out. I'd bet that there's no answer yet because they've working with Sesame Workshop, possibly to see about refference of him out of the can...

If anything, will he have detatchable feet that can't be swallowed to put on the bottom of the can?

Fozzie Bear

10-30-2003, 04:07 PM

danielromens

10-30-2003, 04:57 PM

I figure if we don't mention what we want now, we'll likely never get it.

If they're going to base something off of 'art,' I wish they'd use these characterizations:

http://www.toughpigs.com/bookclubc800.htm

Joe is one of my favorite Sesame artists ever. If you're going to go for children this is definately the way to go. I just don't like the figs. Cookie is way to bulbous and bottom heavy, Grovers lower jaw is way too big, and Bert doesn't look anything like Bert. No sir, I don't like it.

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 05:26 PM

Just because the Muppet isn't seen below the waist doesn't mean there isn't one. I think the Oscar could be made to fit in the can, be fully sculpted with neck, shoulder, and hip articulation, and the lid of the can could pop up and down by a hinge (like the one on the show), and there could be a little ledge on the inside of the can that we could position Oscar's feet on to stand him up higher or to the side of it to lower him into the can. Something that could fit between his legs when we lower him I mean.

I'd like to see some major work begin on Bert right now though. That look he has is NOT a good Bert.

I have never seen his lower body in any book, toy, tv show, movie or anything, that's what I meant. I don't know of any refference of his lower body existing, and I guess SW wants too keep that a secret. Of course, I could be wrong. I mean, they have made an action figure with Dr. Claw's face. Maybe we will see Oscar's body... unless SW doesn't want it.

And as far as this comment

>>If you're going to go for children this is definately the way to go. I just don't like the figs. Cookie is way to bulbous and bottom heavy, Grovers lower jaw is way too big, and Bert doesn't look anything like Bert. No sir, I don't like it.<<

How many times can you explain "They're working on it?"

Remember tiny head, large Body Clifford? Or how about Cream complexion Lew Zeland? I mean, the Style guide compromised artistic integrity, sure, but thesew figures will take shape, don't worry.

Wait until the final product...

frogboy4

10-30-2003, 05:31 PM

Some answer, any answer about Oscar's can would be nice. The topic has been brought up at least 18 times in this thread. Naturally it makes me feel that either our comments aren't really important to them or they are being ignored. It was also asked in bold font. I'd really like to hear it at least addressed even if he has no available information. Do they really want communication or is this just promotional?

I'll make it 19 and write it in a pretty color. LOL!

Can you please tell us any information you know about Oscar being molded inside his trashcan? (if you don't know, please state that too) Thanks

Whew. Hope that works, but just in case, I'll add some smileys. :grouchy: :p :( :) :zany:

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 05:57 PM

I don't know about you, but it's the comments like "This is the worst toy line in the world because Grover's Jaw is jutting out a billionth of an inch under his top lip" really are what get me going. it's at a weird angle, okay?

The Count

10-30-2003, 06:34 PM

Jamie, it's good to know that you're keeping count of these things. Keep it up, and you might just make honorary Countkeeter status with your own froggy badge and everything.

Drtooth, guess you never saw nor at least have any recollection of the episode where the SS gang went to the NYC zoo outside of Sesame Street's boundaries from the set itself. I distinctly remember from when I had better sight the end of that episode and everybody hurrying to the station to catch the subway train back to Sesame, either that or the bus. Not sure if the subway station was at least implied back then. Anyway, I remember Oscar inside his can walking along this sort of fence's sidewalk, and you saw the can lifted up with Oscar's feet sticking out. Me thinks Mikealan has a copy of this episode, best talk to him to see if you can get a copy.
Hope this helps and have a haunted night.

beaker

10-30-2003, 06:50 PM

I understand the need for perfectionism...Ive been a diehard Muppet/Sesame collector for over two decades(Im not that old, really!) but man...

does anyone remember a time on MC when modern Sesame figures(heck non kiddy Sesame anything?) was but a feverish dream?

In your wildest dreams, did you ever think that by 2004 we woul dhave figures of some of the most obscure Muppet, Sesame, and Fraggle characters ever?
Man, just sit back and relax...and be up in arms about the real travesty(Muppet Wizard of Oz)

jediX

10-30-2003, 07:08 PM

amen

MuppetQuilter

10-30-2003, 07:55 PM

There are plenty of times when we've seen Oscar's feet beneath the can. Asking whether Oscar will be sculpted in can seems quite reasonable to me. It will matter a LOT to some of us collectors.

When MuppetFest was being planned, we knew there were Creation spies keeping track of our discussions here and many of our ideas were incorporated into the event.

When Palisades began the Muppet line, Ken asked for our opinions and he certainly gets them. Again, many of our ideas and critiques have made their way into the product. As a sort of reward for the thought we put into the Muppet line, Palisades (and Ken in particular) has answered numerous questions about the line and offered sneak peak info. It's a give and take relationship unlike what we had with Creation.

Fun4All has requested our opinions on the sculpts and accessories. It is only natural that forum members would expect them to answer some questions. It may or may not happen-- that's their call-- but the expectation is reasonable.

As fans, many of us love the opportunity to voice our opinions and have an impact on the merchandise. At the same time, many of us are concerned that the forum not be taken advantage of and used as free advertising. It's a delicate balance and there are good arguments on both sides.

What I am taking a long time to say is: if people want their questions answered, or at least acknowledged, they have every rigth to say so here. Just as people who are excited about the Sesame line have every right to express that.

That and going back a couple pages, a desert is a sandy place with no water, dessert is something you want two helpings of, just as it has two s's.

Drtooth

10-30-2003, 08:11 PM

Drtooth, guess you never saw nor at least have any recollection of the episode where the SS gang went to the NYC zoo outside of Sesame Street's boundaries from the set itself. I distinctly remember from when I had better sight the end of that episode and everybody hurrying to the station to catch the subway train back to Sesame, either that or the bus. Not sure if the subway station was at least implied back then. Anyway, I remember Oscar inside his can walking along this sort of fence's sidewalk, and you saw the can lifted up with Oscar's feet sticking out. Me thinks Mikealan has a copy of this episode, best talk to him to see if you can get a copy.
Hope this helps and have a haunted night.

That's sort of what I meant, the feet come out of the bottom of the can, right? I've seen that plenty of times, most distinguishable in the Danny Devito skit, where he played this dirty old guy and they were both sharing snappy zaps like "Where did you get your driver's licence? A cracker Jack box?"

At the end, Oscar's feet pop out of the bottom of the can, and the two walk away, Oscar says, "This looks like the beginign of a Beautiful Friendship."

This is fuzzy except for those two lines, I may be wrong. I know his feet come out of the can, I meant we never really see the... errr... crotch of the character. (Once again, can't think of a better word)

>>I understand the need for perfectionism...Ive been a diehard Muppet/Sesame collector for over two decades(Im not that old, really!) but man...

does anyone remember a time on MC when modern Sesame figures(heck non kiddy Sesame anything?) was but a feverish dream?

In your wildest dreams, did you ever think that by 2004 we woul dhave figures of some of the most obscure Muppet, Sesame, and Fraggle characters ever?
Man, just sit back and relax...and be up in arms about the real travesty(Muppet Wizard of Oz)<<

Couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, most of my Muppet collection from my youth was Sesame Street. Heck... I don't even think I had many muppet show like things except for (and beaker's gonna make me say it) the Fisher Price Muppet Puppet line... So you can understand my intense fever for this line.

I mean, Muppet OZ (unless it's about them in prison :crazy: ) isn't a good idea, especially since it's not original and they've done it themselves many times. As the Brain once said, "A true geniuos never copies himself" I feel this way about the Muppet troop. If they want to do another book, why don't they do something wild and weird like "Muppet Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" or "Muppet All of the Presidents Men?" *(just kigging :zany: )

But to my question..

Will the Letter pack ins be sorted by

A) Alphabetical order starting with the first series.

B) the first letters of the names of the characters

c) the one they are best remembered for singing songs about (I.e. Cookie monster's C, Bert's W, Biff's J)

or D) randomly paired with characters?

Gonzo

10-30-2003, 08:32 PM

Based on the prototypes so far, who are you guys getting?

Every last one of them.

There's room for improvement, and I hope we see improvement in the final figures, but I've been a Sesame Street fan for too long to reject these wholecloth. Besides, Miles wouldn't talk to me again if I didn't get these. I'm stoked for SuperGrover and Oscar, and all of Series 2...and I hope Bert and Ernie get some work done.

:( :p

beaker

10-30-2003, 10:31 PM

The proposed planned series 2 lineup leaves me drooling! now why cant these be 3.5-4"? Im so sick of the 6" stuff:(

Gonzo

10-30-2003, 11:29 PM

The proposed planned series 2 lineup leaves me drooling! now why cant these be 3.5-4"? Im so sick of the 6" stuff:(

Let Tara Toys GO, Cory.

It's okay. We'll help you through this.

:halo:

Crazy Harry

10-30-2003, 11:43 PM

I missed a few classes. Who's in series two?

Gonzo

10-30-2003, 11:50 PM

I missed a few classes. Who's in series two?

Guy Smiley, The Count, Big Bird, Two-Headed Monster (!) and Telly.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Crazy Harry

10-30-2003, 11:53 PM

No Elmo? Should I get the champain out now or wait until series three?

WiGgY

10-31-2003, 01:20 AM

The proposed planned series 2 lineup leaves me drooling! now why cant these be 3.5-4"? Im so sick of the 6" stuff:(

Well since these are in scale with each other they will probably vary in size as much as the muppet line does. Big Bird will be big, probably as tall as Sweetums if not taller. Elmo, who I bet we'll see eventually (the line would need him) would be much smaller at about Gonzo or Kermit size.

Gonzo

10-31-2003, 01:43 AM

I really do hope we see Elmo--it would be criminal not to have him there. Zoe too.

Yeah, if these are a similar scale to Palisades (like PDiresta says), Prairie Dawn would be downright TINY. Hope we see her.

I don't think I've posted my Top Ten here yet...taking into account the first two series we already know about, they would be:

Herry Monster
Sherlock Hemlock
The Amazing Mumford
Prairie Dawn
Betty Lou
Snuffleupagus
Elmo
Zoe
Yip-Yip Martians
Twiddlebugs

:p :(

beaker

10-31-2003, 02:13 AM

good to see fans excited about these...I know some write off sesame as some foreign relation to the Muppet Show, but to me anyways its as important as TMS and FR.

But man Telly and Two Headed Monster, yay! As for my thing for 3.5-4" figures...that will always be my desired size! I resent how 70's-80's and mid 90's was all about 3.5-4", then Mcfarlane ruined it all:(

tmb1975

10-31-2003, 03:48 AM

Yay! My dream is coming true! I love Sesame just a *tad* more than the Muppets (although I dearly love the Muppets), so this is extra special!

I echo all of the suggestions everyone made, but have a special request - could you please do a Harvey Kneeslapper with a number one or something else from his antics? Example: "Harvey: Do you want one? Ernie: Sure! Harvey: <Slaps number one on Ernie's chest> There you go!" I think that would be rich!

Also, how about Simon Soundman? Love that guy!!!

This is probably a long shot, but I'd love to see figures of the non-muppets, too, like Linda, Bob, Susan, Gordon, Mr. Hooper and all of the classic cast members.

Lastly, could you leave Elmo out of the line? Just kidding, but I really feel Elmo was the downfall of Sesame Street, unfortunately. :(

Luke

10-31-2003, 05:15 AM

When MuppetFest was being planned, we knew there were Creation spies keeping track of our discussions here and many of our ideas were incorporated into the event.

Yeah they used lots of our ideas (that Sweetums hugging must have been purely coincidental of course - lol) and made numourous posts to the forum anonymously along the lines of "I am really looking forward to Muppetfest. I must rush and get my $300 gold ticket immediately. I bet they are nearly all sold out. Who else is going to buy a gold ticket ? etc etc". I get your point though and agree.

Zack the Dog

10-31-2003, 07:31 AM

I don't know if anyone said this one already, but do ya think they could do a reporter Kermit? (w/hat on) I mean it would be cool to have another reporter Kermit thing!
:)

Zach,

Drtooth

10-31-2003, 08:24 AM

Bu tman Telly and Two Headed Monster, yay! As for my thing for 3.5-4" figures...that will always be my desired size! I resent how 70's-80's and mid 90's was all about 3.5-4", then Mcfarlane ruined it all:(

I personally love large figures, myself but I agree that thatere would be more space for them if they were smaller.

I mean, don't worry. Elmo will be made. Methinks they are jus going to wait for a line up of truely obscure characters like Biff and Sully (I thought they were series 2, mayhaps series 3?) so he'll round out the line up. Not ahuge Elmo person, but he grew on me after a while.

I'd love to see all the turely obscure guys like Don Music, Placido Flamingo, Simon SOund man, and Honkers and Dingers. Even the Pink big bad wolf (current)

And uh... since Reproter Kermit is owned by Henson, Not Sesame Workshop, I'd guess he's out of the line. Curse you EMTV!!! We could have had 2 Kermits released under the Sesame brnad (including Carribean Amphibian singing plush)

pdiresta

10-31-2003, 09:31 AM

in a perfect world.... there would be no elmo. We'll eventually have to make him though. But I'd rather do a Sam the Robot figure before Elmo.
As for the oscar questions.... he will not have a full body in the first set. He will have a "pop-up out of his can" feature... We want to do another Oscar down the line--- completely out of his can...perhaps an exclusive? I also want to do a "chase" orange oscar...thoughts?

frogboy4

10-31-2003, 09:35 AM

Thanks for answering the long-awaited question. I appreciate it. I guess it's the best of both worlds. :grouchy: :)

Drtooth

10-31-2003, 10:04 AM

It seems like he's going to be a little like the Stinky figure from the Casper line (based on the 1997 cartoon that was based on the 1996 movie), only non removable. So that means his trash can lid will be on a hinge?

And I hope SW lets you do Toxic Orange Oscar at least as an industry giveaway or a chase or something.

Will there be facts about the characters on the blister packs?

The Count

10-31-2003, 10:33 AM

A few points as usual...

1 Drtooth, as for the Oscar situation you commented on before, perhaps "Mid-torso" would have been a better term for what you wanted to say nespa?
2 Mr. Pdiresta, after hearing that you'd like to make a figure of Sam the Robot before Elmo's eventual appearance in the linup gives me a little bit more of faith in my black heart, though it's still a "wait and see" or "wait and feel" situation from where I'm standing on these figures.
3 Thank you for at least answering the questions concerning Oscar. I'm a little disappointed with the plans for the S1 Oscar figure with his can-popping feature. It just reminds of the Oscar "figure" if it could be called that which came with a playset of the 1-2-3 building as part of Fisher Price's line. The Oscar was in a can and only came up with a pop-up feature, and never had a figure of his own made properly.
4 I'd much rather prefer the full-bodied version of Oscar planned for later in the line, and maybe the "Orange Oscar" would make a good chase variant for those truly nostalgic enough to remember and cherish the figure. Maybe as part of a truly retro Original SS lineup? With Green-Gray Grover?
5 Now then, how do you plan to pack the Muppet letters with the figures? Are you using a plan of combining the pairings based on the figure's first name's first letter and famous sketches? If not, what's the plan for the pairings? And will the figure of the Count planned for S2 have a Muppet number pack-in instead? If so, which number?
6 Elmo should make an eventual appearance in the lineup as well as the more modern characters, after all they're part of Sesame. Just so long as you make a conscientious decision of mixing in all the characters from both old and new, current and obscure, and not play to the masses by going overboard with the newer characters then maybe this line will indeed stand a chance at greatness.
Other than that, just keep us updated on the progress of fixing all the figures likenesses, and I hope these suggestions will indeed make a difference making the figures truly worthy of display alongside the already available Muppets figures.
Thank you for your time and I hope you will come back and answer our questions soon.
Have a happy Halloween!

Fozzie Bear

10-31-2003, 12:10 PM

I'd like to offer more ideas about what I want to see from this line, personally, both as an avid Muppet fan and an admirer of SS. You obviously realize how very important the integrity of the characters are to me, especially since they've been treated with disrespect for so long!

I'll post all that in another thread.

As far as Orange Oscar, save that one for down the road.

Full body, seems once something caused an explosion in his can on SS and he flew out of the can? Maybe some balloons dragged him out? I can't remember, but seems this was a case once.

Luke

10-31-2003, 01:03 PM

in a perfect world.... there would be no elmo. We'll eventually have to make him though.

Ah, a man after my own heart. Yeah when you eventually have to do Elmo make him come with a working TNT accessory so we can all blow him up !

Cap Backfire

10-31-2003, 06:21 PM

Oh yeah. I wanna buy Muppets. God forbid that collectors get hold of this though. These have to be mass marketed so that all the 30 year old choads don't keep them outta kids hands. While I would LOVE to have all of these figs, I would certainly rather a kid have a Cookie Monster than a Barney action figure. Is there some way to keep the marketing directed at kids first and collectors second??? If you just keep with the level of detail you have planned, and keep the scale right, you certainly won't run out of adult customers who want to compliment their Henson memorabilia.
To Fun-4-all, Good luck and Godspeed. I can't wait to see these hit the shelves, but will certainly pass on a fig so my nephew can have them. Speaking of which, I have 2 nephews who will need these figs... Is there some kinda multiple fig pack in the works???

And you darn welll better come out with playsets!!! I see 7-8 segments of the actual Sesame Street layout!!! Everyone would buy that... EVERYONE. Think about it. And then hire me for ideas, cause after this, I'm charging... HAHAHAH

I realize I am not the first one to come up with these ideas... But it's funny to think that everyone wants exactly what I want...

And stay with the letters with every fig thing, that's friggin GENIUS.

WiGgY

10-31-2003, 06:32 PM

We want to do another Oscar down the line--- completely out of his can...perhaps an exclusive? I also want to do a "chase" orange oscar...thoughts?

When you say chase Oscar, what exactly do you mean? Are you thinking a one per case thing? If so, I think it's a great idea. If you are thinking about a one per 20 case thing, then I think it's not a good. I'd like to see a full body Oscar in the regular line later on with an orange Oscar as a convention exclusive around the same time.

Question.

Are there plans to start a collector's club type thing so that people con collect the figures that are sold at conventions?

It would be a huge benifit to the line because it would allow for a larger volume of convention exclusives, thus reducing the cost. Also, it would be a sign that this line is collector friendly. If a collector's club type of thing is started, I suggest starting it at the same tile the first con exclusive comes out. That way secondary over pricing doesn't happen like what haoopened with the WWE Dr. Teeth. I'm sure many will appreciate that.

Gonzo

10-31-2003, 06:56 PM

I'm delighted to see the older, more obscure characters being made as figures--it gives me hope we'll see characters like Prairie Dawn, Sherlock Hemlock, and even Roosevelt Franklin.

BUT, even as a 30-year old geezer, I recognize that Elmo has been a major part of Sesame Street for 15 years, and SHOULD be made as a figure. Should be made as a great figure. With Dorothy and some other great accessories. The line shouldn't be Elmo's WORLD by any means, but he and some of the other "newer" characters who have only been around for a decade deserve some credit.

:p :p :p

Crazy Harry

10-31-2003, 08:47 PM

I think this line is already aimed more at kids with their slighlty charicturish design.

Gonzo

10-31-2003, 09:44 PM

I think this line is already aimed more at kids with their slighlty charicturish design.

It definitely is.

So it would make sense to include Elmo at some point.

WiGgY

10-31-2003, 10:33 PM

I have another question.

What changes are planned for Bert? Will the head sculpt be changed so that the expression on the face is one that the actual character can express?

By this I mean, will his eye brow be changes so that it either all arcs up, all arcs down, or is straight across. Also, will the mouth be changed to a straight line instead of the current expression which is impossible for the character to have as a puppt?

Maybe an all question thread should be started for pdiresta so that he can just see the questions and leave this thread for any and all reactions to the answers.

MuppetQuilter

11-01-2003, 01:27 AM

Quinn's right.

I didn't care for Elmo for a long time. He's annoying and he gets tons of air time. I wanted to see Grover or Snuffy when I turned on Sesame Street, characters I grew up with, and not all these new guys like Elmo, Baby Bear, and Telly (what can I say-- I'm old).

Then I had a child. Elmo has an amazing connection with young kids. It's different from Big Bird or Cookie or any of the others. Elmo has the air time he has for good reason. Personally, I'd still rather watch Grover or Bert and Ernie, but the audience SST is trying to reach and educate responds to Elmo.

If this is a line to celebrate 35 years of SST it has to include Elmo. If Elmo is excluded, it would be a celebration of the first 20 years of SST. Elmo has to be there. The adults don't have to buy him, but the kids will.

Gonzo

11-01-2003, 01:29 AM

Thanks Annika!

:)

And I consider Telly to be a "new" character too.

Us old people. Just load us into the old folks home already.

:sleep: :boo:

Luke

11-01-2003, 05:13 AM

Maybe an all question thread should be started for pdiresta so that he can just see the questions and leave this thread for any and all reactions to the answers.

Nice suggestion, but maybe that's better left for Fun4All's new website once it's launched if they want to do that kinda thing.

As for Fun4All convention exclusives and collectors clubs - as far as I know their company does not attend the conventions - only trade shows. They are a very different company from Palisades - not aimed at specialist collectors so much. I think things like chases would be in the regular line, and I doubt we'll see loads of exclusives, if any. This is kinda a line aimed at kids with some adult interest rather than the other way around.

WiGgY

11-01-2003, 12:44 PM

If they don't attend the conventions, I wonder what kind of exclusive he was talking about. Store exclusive maybe?

Luke

11-01-2003, 04:16 PM

If they don't attend the conventions, I wonder what kind of exclusive he was talking about. Store exclusive maybe?

I would guess so - TRU, Walmart, Target etc etc. I think this line will be much easier on the collectors in that sense. Just my hunch though going on their past history, I guess it could change if they wanted.

muppet maniac

11-02-2003, 11:34 AM

Wow!those are sooooo cool!

especially Oscar and Cookie Monster-my two all-time favorite Sesame Street Muppets!

pxlforge

11-02-2003, 02:04 PM

I'm glad we got an answer on Oscar's can. A pop out of the can feature would be cool (especially with a removable one down the line). The Elmo comment is very reassuring to someone who hasn't watched Sesame since the 70's. To me Elmo is just a past tickle me Christmas toy craze and nothing more.

Questions posed but unanswered (unles I missed it) that I think would go even further to reassure us about this line are... what is it that F4A is unhappy with about these prototypes? and possily also related, is their any interest on F4A's part to make the stylized versions a bit more like the puppets, or are you happy with the cartoony look?

WiGgY

11-02-2003, 06:14 PM

I photoshopped some revisions for the Bert figure and hopefully the person from fun-4-all will take them into consideration.

http://rebootilicious.rbcorner.com/images/bert2.gif

I moved the eyes closer together.

I thickened the top of the head a bit to make it look more like a pineable and less like a bowling pin. This is more accurate.

I removed the mouth all together and put in a muppet mouth.

I straightened the yey brow so that it all arced up. Bert's eye brow can only all arc up, down, or not at all. It can not go in two different directions.

I moved the eyes up a bit.

I know it isn't perect, but with these changes it improves the sculpt so that it is more accurante, but it also kepts that stylized look that they apprently want (though I'd rather they not be that way).

If Bert looked like this (hopefully better) I'd buy the figure. If he stays the way he is, I'd definatly pass.

frogboy4

11-02-2003, 07:31 PM

I don't think Bert's ever looked that happy. It is better, but I'd rather they get completely out of this cartoony look. :( :p

AndyWan Kenobi

11-02-2003, 09:59 PM

Those are some nice changes on Bert. I wonder what Super-Happy Bert is pointing at, though... Maybe Bernice the pigeon just organized his bottlecaps and paperclips for him? Or maybe Ernie actually cleaned up his own mess for once? The possibilities are endless...

:p :(

Seriously, though, I like what you've done with it.

Erine81981

11-02-2003, 10:04 PM

If they don't look either like themself on the Show from the 70's or 80's then I'm not getting them and if that don't compare to the Muppet Action figures then there is no worring I'll won't be getting them. I want them to be at least have the same artaoulation (bad spelling) u know where their arms and legs r able to move not just stand. Ok thanks that my whole ten cents.

WiGgY

11-02-2003, 10:32 PM

I don't think Bert's ever looked that happy. It is better, but I'd rather they get completely out of this cartoony look. :( :p

I agree that Bert never looked that happy, but if they want to go with the cartoon look, I figured they could at least find a place between puppet and cartoon. That first sculpt is just awful!

I'm hoping they drop the cartoon stuff. Even if the first series looks like that, at lest change it for the second one. Sesame Workshop should separate the license for cartoon looking products and puppet looking products. Then Palisades could take the realistic stuff and leave the cartoon stuff for Fun-4-All. But I know that won't or can't happen. Oh well, I'm hoping there is going to be some kind of huge change between now and the final figures.

BJC899

11-02-2003, 11:01 PM

Here's the redo I did. His face and color really bothered me, so I edited them a little bit.

http://homepage.mac.com/bencohen91389/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/Hosting/bert%20copy.jpg
:(

BJC899

11-03-2003, 10:37 AM

Also, does anyone else think Cookie Monsters color is off?

Maybe it should look more like this (http://homepage.mac.com/bencohen91389/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/Hosting/cookie%20copy.jpg)

Drtooth

11-03-2003, 10:58 AM

It would be great if the Bernice figure was sculpted to sit on that finger, like a perch.

Any plans for future accessories?

floydnjanicefan

11-03-2003, 11:31 AM

Also, does anyone else think Cookie Monsters color is off?

Maybe it should look more like this (http://homepage.mac.com/bencohen91389/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/Hosting/cookie%20copy.jpg)

I think that color change to Cookie Monster is very good. Fun 4 All should definitely consider making that change to the figure...

WiGgY

11-03-2003, 12:40 PM

It would be great if the Bernice figure was sculpted to sit on that finger, like a perch.

Any plans for future accessories?

That's a good idea. Maybe that is why he is pointing like that.

Ben, I agree that Cookie needs to be darker. He also needs a more shaggy look. Where are the levels of blue fur that we were told about?

Remember this?

"(cookie monster WON'T just be a chunk of blue plastic, he'll have many levels of blue fur)"

I don't think what we saw would be described as many levels of fur.

BTW, we were told that paint changes would occur. Worst case senario is that I'd have to repaint it myself. What they need to focus on is the sculpt. Even Ernie (who i think is pretty good) needs changing. The eyes are way too big and ge seems too small. But there isn't anything to judge scale by at this time.

Fozzie Bear

11-03-2003, 01:47 PM

I still don't want to settle for cartoony versions of the characters!

I think the mix between the 2 photoshopped versions of Bert would be good, and I like Cookie's new coloring--make them eyes smaller, though! As far as Bert's articulation, I do believe I see joints in the knees? I also would like to see Bernice the Pigeon be able to perch on the finger!

Pdiresta, maybe you can shoot us a list of articulation points on these characters. that would be so cool.

I think it's a good idea to keep things available to kids other than Barney--but, I, as a big fan of SS, want to see these things marketed toward collectors as well. Again, I don't want to settle for less when a company has a great opportunity to hand us what we really want.

And Quinn, I'm 31 now--please stop calling 30 old. I already feel it, don't need to be reminded. Ooh--my hip! :sleep:

Drtooth

11-03-2003, 02:01 PM

I still don't see anything being way off myself. Cookie's eyes need to be smaller, and thin gs need to be tweeked, and Cookie and Oscar (though it's hard to tell) need to be furrier, but slightly.

The cartoon stylization seems mild to me, with the exception of Bert and Oscar, since these characters are cartoonish themselves. As I said earlier, I think more Puppet like versions count for characters like The Count, Big Bird, and Big Bad wolf...

Baby Animal

11-03-2003, 02:16 PM

Is there any new news about the web site? It states the new site will be up October '03, and it's now November. Just like to know. Thanks.

Gonzo

11-03-2003, 02:27 PM

And Quinn, I'm 31 now--please stop calling 30 old. I already feel it, don't need to be reminded. Ooh--my hip! :sleep:

31 ???

That's OOOOLD!!!!

Cookie Monster has always beena lighter, teal color when illustrated, even though he appears to be a royal blue color to us on TV...Grover's darker than he is by several degrees...

Fozzie Bear

11-03-2003, 02:32 PM

31 ??? That's OOOOLD!!!

:mad: :grouchy: :boo: :sleep:
:cry:

pxlforge

11-03-2003, 02:38 PM

Fozzie Bear

11-03-2003, 02:44 PM

I think we're starting to get there on the look for Bert. I could definitely accept pxlforge's version.

BJC899

11-03-2003, 02:52 PM

I still think the color of the skin is to yellow, and should have moer orange in it. Also, an open mouth would be good. If it's aimed for children, always aproach in a smile, including action figures. If you do a google image search for Bert, he's always in a open mouth position, except for that picutre on the 1st page where he has a cigg in his mouth. :rolleyes:

If the figure had an open mouth, everything above the nose on pxlforge's version, and a different skin color, this figure would be a knock out!

pxlforge

11-03-2003, 02:59 PM

I still think the color of the skin is to yellow

color of proto is a Lemon Yellow, but should be a Canary Yellow

Only other MAJOR issue I have is the sweater stripes are twice as thick as they should be - usually has more delicate stripes - but that may be a paint application issue?

Drtooth

11-03-2003, 02:59 PM

I think we're starting to get there on the look for Bert. I could definitely accept pxlforge's version.

I will admit to that. It's unnatural to see a Unibrow bent like that, and the one issue I had was his head shape (I forgot to post it). Plus he's never been so flirty. I like the idea, but I'd rather see something like that.

WiGgY

11-03-2003, 03:28 PM

Bert seems the most off to me - but haven't examined the others as closely...http://www.pxlforge.com/images/upload/muppets/bertfix.jpg

I adjusted the shape of his head (was too pointy), made his noce more ovular (too round), flattened and lowered his unibrow, and moved his eyes closer together.

I'd go for this kind of figure, but I agree with Ben that the mouth should be changed. If you combine the mouth Ben made with the top of the head you made it would be acceptable.

Basically, anything that look like the prototype we've been shown is just not right. You can't argue that at all no matter how hard you try.

frogboy4

11-03-2003, 04:06 PM

Nothing about these resemble the look of the puppets. I really don't understand adding texture to a cartoon likeness. I'm still hoping they change their strategy. Here's a little mock up I made. A side by side comparison of my favorite SS duo and their toy counterpart. I'm not sure what exact scale they will be in so I sized them to match the photo. :p :( You will not the proportions and liknesses aren't really on the mark. They have the cartoonish PVC look. That's primarily what I'm objecting to. Thought an illustration would help. Bert's height/weight looks okay, but his likeness and coloring leaves much to be desired. Ernie looks like a dwarf.

CLICK HERE (http://www.jamesvier.com/etc/ss_scale.jpg)

pxlforge

11-03-2003, 05:05 PM

I wish I could seen the cartoony images these are supposed to be based on. They don't look specifically cartoony to me, just wrong. And that comparison image makes many of the mistakes pretty clear. I guess my question is what cartoon images really look like this? links? pics?

Proportions: there is definitely a dwarflike quality to Ernie's body proportions. He was short, scaled smaller, but but still proportioned somewhat similarly to Bert. Are the photos of Ernie and Bert protos in scale with each other or is the Ernie pic more of a closeup (if the pics are in scale Ernie's got a bad case of encephalitis and needs a headshrinking)? Ernie prototype is to Ernie puppet as Mini-me is to Dr. Evil. It looks like a Sesame Baby Ernie, not a full grown Ernie.

Likeness: already mentioned what I spotted on Bert (headshape, noseshape, browshape, eyeposition). Ernie's eyes seem too big and the pupils aren't positioned right (think they should be slightly lower and slightly closer together). Also the ears in the puppet pic have a more upwards sloping halfheart shape. Both of their hair needs some work Berts looks like a black christmas bow on his head. I also agree that Bert's mouth needs to be open.

Detail: the extra thick stripes on the figures also contribute to the more cartoony quality. I'm sure its easier and cheaper to make big blocky stripes, but thats NOT up to the level of quality we've been led to believe F4A is aiming for.

The most cartoony elements to me (aside from the ones listed above) are ernie's undetailed tube-like arms, Berts arms have SOME visible folds to make them look like fabric sleeves.

Question for everyone - do you want to see Happy Bert? Flirty Bert? or Angry Bert? (I vote for angry - wasn't he always angry? Just remember him most that way)

BJC899

11-03-2003, 05:16 PM

https://www.hottopic.com/store/nodePage.asp?LS=0&BRAND_ID=29

Check that page for picutres, but if you look at the very top, it shows the top half of Bert's face. LOOK AT THE EYEBROW!!!!!!

I woudl rather Berts face to be like the one's here...http://kclibrary.nhmccd.edu/bert.jpg

frogboy4

11-03-2003, 05:25 PM

I'd like to see slightly annoyed Bert. That's how he appears to be most of the time. :( I'd also like to see some wrinkles in the clothing. I'm sure that wouldn't make the figures less kid frinedly. Those are the details that impress me. They aren't wearing rubberized suits, they're wearing cotton clothes. They should fold and taper in parts. That's what quality is all about. :p

MuppetQuilter

11-03-2003, 05:53 PM

Slightly annoyed Bert sounds right to me-- I want plain old ordinary everyday Bert.

Quinn-- you realize you age faster once you have kids, right? 30 with a child is a good three years older than 30 without a kid. Of course there are advantages to having kids-- think of all the Muppety toys we get to buy 'for the kids.' ;)

BJC899

11-03-2003, 05:57 PM

Here's a little Ernie touching up, I did. Mostly making him not so short. If his mouth was open SO much, it would be better, and and the smile didn't go all the way to the edge of his face.

http://homepage.mac.com/bencohen91389/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/Hosting/Ernie%20Comparison%20copy.jpg

frogboy4

11-03-2003, 06:02 PM

I'd still like to see him taller, with a proportioned head, different eye focus, more stripes on his shirt. legs that aren't so stubby that have room for knees and longer arms. Still looks like slightly taller cartoon now. This is kind of what I mean. To make the figure that I'd like to purchase, they'd pretty much have to start over. :(

WiGgY

11-03-2003, 07:39 PM

Even if these are going to be based on cartoons, at least use better cartoons. Looks like they took the least detailed ones they could find. Either that or the sculptors they use are just plain bad.

Where is the fun-4-all guy? There are still many issues yet to be addressed.

radionate

11-04-2003, 10:44 AM

He's most likely trying to close the can of worms he's opened.

Drtooth

11-04-2003, 10:53 AM

Once again, I do not blaime the Fun 4 All people, and I don't think you should. Blame Sesame Workshop for those style guides.

Personally, I do think Bert needs a new head completley, and Ernie's Body needs to be a little less dumpy.

Of course, I'd like to see Oscar's fur really crazy and untamed. It's hard to explain, but he has very tangled mangled fur that I'd like to see.

And I vote for a Slightly annoyed Bert as well...

And can there be any drapery on the clothing, folds etc. That would make it much better... and the jeans/ pants that they both wear would benifit from some denim style texturing.

Fozzie Bear

11-04-2003, 11:04 AM

Quinn-- you realize you age faster once you have kids, right? 30 with a child is a good three years older than 30 without a kid.

Ha ha, Quinn! Now you're 2 years OLDER than me!! Nyaaaa :p

My suggestion on Bert is to start over on him with a new look at the shape of the puppet's head, placement of his eyebrows, eyes, nose, mouth, etc. I agree that more stripes could work because the old action figures I own of the SS characters has more strips, but still not the kind of quality I expect in action figures nowadays! Slightly annoyed Bert is a great idea. But, heck, if they just did Bert with a good formed head and lined his eyebrow along the top of his eyes that could be a great look, not bent or anything, then we could let that be regular, angry, annoyed or whatever Bert.

Tooth, I think Nate meant Pdiresta might be out trying to get our examples and interests in these figures worked out! Hopefully he'll understand that fan input from folks like us who love these characters will make his line a success--look waht it's done for The Muppet Show!

For all others, for GOOD illustrations of the SS Muppets, I posted a link a few pages back, go find it and look at it. THAT'S what I want the characters to look like if they ahve to be based on toons, with a few tweaks here and there (color, etc).

pdiresta

11-04-2003, 11:27 AM

hey all,
Thanks for all the great insight! I meet with Sesame Workshop on Thursday to go over the first level of revisions. I'll let you know how it goes (on Friday)...

radionate

11-04-2003, 11:39 AM

Once again, I do not blaime the Fun 4 All people, and I don't think you should. Blame Sesame Workshop for those style guides.
James, I just don't understand your perspective on this.

We can't have our cake and eat it to on these things.

If they are going to be a stylized version, then how likely do you think it is for Sesame Workshop to okay an Orange Oscar the Grouch, when he only appeared briefly, and only in puppet form?

If these are supposed to be marketed to Children and Adults, how likely is it to you that a stylized version of a character that a child has never seen on the show will be produced?

Blaming the style guide isn't the way to go on this. It's been stated that the style guide features actual representations of the puppets, and stylized examples of some of the main characters themselves.

I'm not trying to be mean at all. But I really think that this has been the case of someone who got a little excited, is a little "green" in the toy industry, and had no idea what they were getting into when they jumped into this forum to announce their new toy line.

If you are going to present art to the masses, you have to be able to take the criticism with the praise. That comes in any artistic medium whether it be acting, painting, scultpting, etc.

Drtooth

11-04-2003, 12:27 PM

Actually, I do have my stand on the style guides, and I will stand by it. I just wonder who in SW's marketing department decided on that. I looked at the T-shirts on the hot topic site, and I really think they are pretty odd looking illustraitions. They work for T-shirts fine (I actually have an Ernie T shirt that is as dumpy as the prototype action figure) but as for 3D, they look off.

I do still think that F4A needs to haggle for the rights to the Muppet versions, and not these weird illustrations. To me, that's the main issue.

Reguardless, here's a compilation thus so far of the comments and changes we are all talking about

Bert: Different head shape and expression, drapery on the clothing. More stripes on shirt. Texturization on clothes. Pointing finger could be changed.
Ernie: Needs to be thinner, at least to give the body an illusion of better length. More stripes, drapery, and texturization on clothing
Oscar: Wilder, more jagged fur. Are detatchable legs an option? Explain the popping out feature.
Cookie: Letter of the day stickers to use with the cookie(s). Darker, layered fur. His body needs to be more oblongish, and not so round so fast. His eyes need to be smaller.
Grover: Will his cape, Helmet, and Embelum be removable? Darker fur. More layered fur...

As far as I can remember.

frogboy4

11-04-2003, 02:30 PM

Every licensor receives a style guide from the company. They are notoriously bad. Palisades received one, but they to be taken with a grain of salt. The intention is not to copy them, but allow it to influence the spirit of the product. Palisades is the perfect example because they use the style guide in conjunction with the puppet images to get the correct height, weight and look of the characters.

Drtooth

11-04-2003, 02:38 PM

... right! And let's hope that we can have the same situation here! Please haggle a little when you meet with SW....

frogboy4

11-04-2003, 02:50 PM

Haggle a lot. LOL!

It's your money, your license and you guys should have a great deal of say as long as the spirit of the characters is intact. :)

Baby Animal

11-04-2003, 03:18 PM

Is there any way that printing this thread out, with pictures, may help your case to make them look more like the puppets? If so, then print it! And haggle. And prod, plead, beg, and throw cash to make them right!

Please :cry:

Drtooth

11-04-2003, 03:18 PM

But cartoon likeness or not, some drapery would really make the clothing pop, and not look just painted on...

(I stupidly didn't notice that before)

A good example is the Scooter figure... ;)

Gonzo

11-05-2003, 09:00 PM

30 with a child is a good three years older than 30 without a kid.

Is *THAT* what's happening to me?

:sleep:

Fozzie Bear

11-06-2003, 08:08 AM

Yep, and THAT makes you older than me! HAH HAH!!

But, then again, you were no national tv, and I'm still sitting around local tv and radio living in an apartment by the train tracks.

*sigh.*

MuppetQuilter

11-06-2003, 11:32 AM

Is *THAT* what's happening to me?

:sleep:

I don't know about you, but it's definitely what's happening to me. Of course I have two and you only have one, so maybe the effect is milder for you.

Baby Animal

11-06-2003, 11:41 AM

Wow... what is 29 with 2 kids then?

Fozzie Bear

11-06-2003, 11:44 AM

I hope Pdiresta posts something soon! I'm anxious to hear what changes are planned for the line, and see what we might be able to offer up to get a good mix of what we want and what is safe for the kiddies!!

Baby Animal

11-06-2003, 12:26 PM

There you go unmuffining the thread again....

Man Kevin. You're old :)

You think he begged and pleaded?

The Count

11-06-2003, 12:40 PM

One can only hope that pdiresta did his best when quoting the changes suggested by us on this board during his meeting with SW today. And I guess, wait till tomorrow and see if he actually comes in and posts what "Success" if any were gotten from the results of the meeting.
Hope this helps and hope the figures end up somewhat with the quality we're expecting.

pdiresta

11-07-2003, 09:49 AM

sorry all, the meeting got pushed back to next Tuesday. The sculptor and other important people who needed to be there, couldn't make it. I'll give an extensive update on the line Tuesday afternoon.

Drtooth

11-07-2003, 10:34 AM

Too bad, dude! Oh well, at least we can get some more suggesstions and comments in by the weekend so you can share them with everyone!

Fozzie Bear

11-07-2003, 12:54 PM

Pdiresta, print off all these pages and take them in with you. Click here for the printable version of this thread:
http://forum.muppetcentral.com/printthread.php?t=10547

Let them know that you have been in contact with the fans and regardless of age we have certain expectations on these figures and it could create a result in the final decision of purchases depending on what is produced.

danielromens

11-07-2003, 03:12 PM

Pdiresta, print off all these pages and take them in with you. Click here for the printable version of this thread:
http://forum.muppetcentral.com/printthread.php?t=10547
You know I think we're starting to expect and ask for a little much. Ken has spoiled us with his attention and now it feels as though we expect that from anyone who posts here. I really don't think posting off this thread as a good idea unless we want to make an entire meeting believe that some fans are overzealous jerks. Some of the threads on this board aren't exactly the most friendly, mine included. We don't want to create dissent. You have to remember that there was a whole series of posts here that we no more than maniacal arguing. I think simply saying he's in contact is good enough.

Fozzie Bear

11-07-2003, 03:16 PM

I agree, don't print this out. Copy and paste the parts that's helpful to you. I think it's a good idea to show them that whether we're 31 or 16 we want something good. I want these and will pay the price, but I want to buy something good. I don't want to settle for less if they can give us more.

Cap Backfire

11-08-2003, 11:26 AM

Dude, all I want is Oscar and Supergrover. Everything else is just gravy. I agree with Daniel that copying this Bible-sized thread would be a little crazy considering some of the content, but to show that there are almost 300 posts and almost 4,000 views shows serious interest. The original post generated more interest than most of the posts, if not all, on this board.
The only benchmarks I ask you to meet are the following-
Thoughtful accessories-the whole "letter with eyes and mouth with each fig" thing is genius.
At least as many points of articulation as Fozzie Bear (which is 5). As long as there are ball jointed shoulders... The rest... Gravy.
Size on scale with the Palisades line. If that is perfect, then I'll buy them no matter what. The sculpts won't be able to gel completely, but that's almost better for my needs.

Good luck with this Line Pdiresta. We're all pulling for you, no matter what. Well, I think we all are... HAHAHAA